Dating the Schiavons sword

Cathey · 31st March 2023, 01:33 AM

Hi Mark

I have a large book by Lionello Boccia but not the article you mentioned. I don’t suppose you have a copy you could send me? I would be happy to share my article with you when it is finally finished.

Cheers Cathey

Reventlov · 31st March 2023, 11:54 AM

I have read it but do not have a copy, unfortunately. I found it in one of the university libraries in my region. I'll scan it for you at my next opportunity, but this could be a few months... I don't know if that will be quick enough for your timeline.

urbanspaceman · 31st March 2023, 02:00 PM

I came across this rather ugly (IMHO) example and felt I should draw it to your attention in case it was of interest. It is currently up for auction.
This is the description translated roughly from German:
Lattice basket Schiavona, Italy around 1700, double-edged, slender blade, blade with patina and with slight traces of corrosion, openwork in the upper part, iron, somewhat loosened, cut basket hilt, with straight cross-guard, wooden grip. about 100cm

Cathey · 31st March 2023, 11:39 PM

Hi Mark, thanks for your offer, I don't mind how long it takes as I have not been able to track down a copy.

Cheers Cathey

Cathey · 1st April 2023, 02:03 AM

Hi urbanspaceman

Yes I did see this one, the blade is nice and early Italian I think, but the hilt is very odd to me. Looks like it has been played with.

Cheers Cathey

urbanspaceman · 1st April 2023, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathey

Hi urbanspaceman

Yes I did see this one, the blade is nice and early Italian I think, but the hilt is very odd to me. Looks like it has been played with.

Cheers Cathey

A composite piece... yes. It is certainly a mess, but would still work.

Interested Party · 1st April 2023, 02:09 PM

Keith, the length of the handle appears to be longer than average. The blade seems slender. Which to me gives the impression that this was a stabbing weapon. A long time ago I remember reading that these were primarily thrusting weapons but looking at all the examples of blades on this thread and on the forum, it seems that there were possibly several schools of thought associated with this hilt.

Cathy, these may be questions bordering on my being simple minded, did the average length of the handle change over time? Did the balance of the blade shift as well? Am I correct in thinking that many of these were cut and thrust weapons? In your research for the article did you find that they became more thrust orientated as the hilt became more intricate? Or did they continue to be manufactured for a diversity of fencing styles?

Interested Party · 1st April 2023, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Lattice basket Schiavona, Italy around 1700, double-edged, slender blade, blade with patina and with slight traces of corrosion, openwork in the upper part, iron, somewhat loosened, cut basket hilt, with straight cross-guard, wooden grip. about 100cm

Does the first picture show a pommel with a hole to receive a knuckle bow? If so, a composite piece?

31st March 2023, 01:33 AM	#1
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Lionello Boccia article Hi Mark I have a large book by Lionello Boccia but not the article you mentioned. I don’t suppose you have a copy you could send me? I would be happy to share my article with you when it is finally finished. Cheers Cathey

31st March 2023, 02:00 PM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 722	Odd example I came across this rather ugly (IMHO) example and felt I should draw it to your attention in case it was of interest. It is currently up for auction. This is the description translated roughly from German: Lattice basket Schiavona, Italy around 1700, double-edged, slender blade, blade with patina and with slight traces of corrosion, openwork in the upper part, iron, somewhat loosened, cut basket hilt, with straight cross-guard, wooden grip. about 100cm Attached Images

31st March 2023, 11:39 PM	#4
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Lionello Boccia article Hi Mark, thanks for your offer, I don't mind how long it takes as I have not been able to track down a copy. Cheers Cathey

1st April 2023, 02:03 AM	#5
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Strange Schiavona for auction Hi urbanspaceman Yes I did see this one, the blade is nice and early Italian I think, but the hilt is very odd to me. Looks like it has been played with. Cheers Cathey

1st April 2023, 02:09 PM	#7
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 511	lenght of handle Keith, the length of the handle appears to be longer than average. The blade seems slender. Which to me gives the impression that this was a stabbing weapon. A long time ago I remember reading that these were primarily thrusting weapons but looking at all the examples of blades on this thread and on the forum, it seems that there were possibly several schools of thought associated with this hilt. Cathy, these may be questions bordering on my being simple minded, did the average length of the handle change over time? Did the balance of the blade shift as well? Am I correct in thinking that many of these were cut and thrust weapons? In your research for the article did you find that they became more thrust orientated as the hilt became more intricate? Or did they continue to be manufactured for a diversity of fencing styles?

31st March 2023, 11:54 AM	#2
Reventlov Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 141	I have read it but do not have a copy, unfortunately. I found it in one of the university libraries in my region. I'll scan it for you at my next opportunity, but this could be a few months... I don't know if that will be quick enough for your timeline.