German Hunting swords , thoughts and facts

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Akanthus

The tang of the blades is formed flat and griplike and the gripplates are fixed to the tang by hollow rivets ( Pic.5) These are filled with a small piece of wood and decorationnails are fixed there.So from the side you can see the handle-shaped tang between the gripplates.( Pic.6) In Germany you call this „Heftmontage".Another way to fix a grip to the tang ( Angelmontage),is less common in the early times.Here you put the grip over a narrow tang.The end of the grip often looks like a stylized bird's head,with it's „ beak" towards the knucklebow( Pic.7+8).

Does this tang mean that within the German Guild system that these were made by a knife maker like the langes messer, not by a sword smith?

[awdaniec666]

Very interesting information Akanthus!
I always wondered if there is any specific reason for hunting swords to have defensive elements (guards) on them with obviously more function than preventing a slipping of the hand towards the blade. Do you know something in this direction?

I also have a hunting sword or hanger in my collection which seems to be later (late 18th century ?). Feel free to comment on this because I´m unable to determine its age and origin!

[Akanthus]

Originally Posted by awdaniec666

Very interesting information Akanthus!
I always wondered if there is any specific reason for hunting swords to have defensive elements (guards) on them with obviously more function than preventing a slipping of the hand towards the blade. Do you know something in this direction?

I also have a hunting sword or hanger in my collection which seems to be later (late 18th century ?). Feel free to comment on this because I´m unable to determine its age and origin!

I think that the guard plate has primarily the function of a hand protection from blows
by the game but also from hostile blades during a fight.On the other hand it protects the tools in the scabbard from getting lost .
I would agree that your very nice weapon has to be dated to the second half of the 18.th century .I would say England or France, not Germany . Possibly it is used as a hanger and had a naval history.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Does this tang mean that within the German Guild system that these were made by a knife maker like the langes messer, not by a sword smith?

They certainly have a lot in common. Not just the tang and riveted grip plates, but the presence of a nagel-like hand protection riveted to the guard, and general shape of the grip.

[Akanthus]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Does this tang mean that within the German Guild system that these were made by a knife maker like the langes messer, not by a sword smith?

I don't think that the way of grip attachment gives a clou to the manufacturer.The " Heftmontage " predominates in the first half of the 17.th century .Later ,up to the 18.th century the " Angelmontage " prevails.Certainly also a question of fashion and area of the smith.In those times arises a spezification of craftsmen.One group made the blades ,another did finish and sharp them,others made the grips and connected them with the blade.But certainly there were skilled blacksmiths outside the centers of weapon builders which were able to built a complete weapon with their own hands.