Kocet-Kocetan hilt form

[Wijaya34]

Hi everyone, the hilt was recently excavated in the new Kediri airport a few months ago, so It's likely not from Sumbawa or Bali. I was thinking that it might be some kind of prototypical Kocet-Kocetan hilt before it evolved into it's current form.

[milandro]

Originally Posted by Wijaya34

Hi everyone, the hilt was recently excavated in the new Kediri airport a few months ago, so It's likely not from Sumbawa or Bali. I was thinking that it might be some kind of prototypical Kocet-Kocetan hilt before it evolved into its current form.

It is really unlikely that this was a Kocet-Kocetan shape and in fact it is possible that it is the reverse which means that the Kocet-Kocetan evolved in other forms rather than other forms evolved into a Kocet-Kocetan

you can look this up about the evolution of this hilts here

[kai]

you can look this up about the evolution of this hilts here

Thanks for the reference, André!

I'm afraid the idea set forth in this paper is a non-sequitur for me: I'm missing an in-depth discussion why the author chooses to associate Madurese hilts with overwhelmingly similar overall features as well as shared motifs/details into 3 distinct categories: H3, Ins3, and I3. I'd like to see convincing evidence why all these Madurese hilts should be considered not more closely related to each other than to 3 very different "lineages" from a variety of cultures.

Regards,
Kai

[milandro]

Originally Posted by kai

Thanks for the reference, André!

I'm afraid the idea set forth in this paper is a non-sequitur for me: I'm missing an in-depth discussion why the author chooses to associate Madurese hilts with overwhelmingly similar overall features as well as shared motifs/details into 3 distinct categories: H3, Ins3, and I3. I'd like to see convincing evidence why all these Madurese hilts should be considered not more closely related to each other than to 3 very different "lineages" from a variety of cultures.

Regards,
Kai

You are right Kai, indeed it isn't clear, it seems as though the author seems to think that the Bali form of hilt making is the truest to the shape that it wants to represent and that the Madura form represents an " evolution" towards abstract form.

Whether this is what really happened it isn't possible to say, certainly not with that brief account given there.

[kai]

Hi everyone, the hilt was recently excavated in the new Kediri airport a few months ago, so It's likely not from Sumbawa or Bali. I was thinking that it might be some kind of prototypical Kocet-Kocetan hilt before it evolved into it's current form.

Thanks for the details, pak Wijaya!

Do you have more pics, please?

So, the whole ensemble is as excavated? (Not including the old scabbard, I guess?)

Regards,
Kai

[A. G. Maisey]

I cannot see any trace of the Kocet-Kocetan/Kusia form in the hilt shown in post #34, to me it looks like a humanoid form, perhaps generic ancestor figure.