Keris malela in Bujangga Manik

Jean · 6th March 2023, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

We now know that there is no evidence of locally smelted iron anywhere in Jawa/ Bali, & probably no credible evidence for anywhere else in the Archipelago either.

Hello Alan,
What about pamor Luwu in Sulawesi?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 6th March 2023, 11:41 AM

Yes Jean, of course.

I sometimes do get a little bit too focused on Jawa/Bali.

Luwu was a major producer & exporter of nickel/iron, and was producing this from very early times --- & still is. Hardjonegoro gave me some Luwu nickel, but I never got around to using it.

There have been some quite informative archeological investigations of work sites carried out in South Sulawesi, especially around Lake Matano & Katue, I think some of the Kutue sites date back to the first millenium.

You're right Jean, I should stop & think for a moment before extending my Jawa focused thoughts into other places.

So we can just delete my off the cuff comment, & I thank you Jean for waking me up.

However, from memory, I think that those South Sulawesi smelts produced iron/nickel alloy, cannot recall if there was any evidence of pure iron smelting. I think they were smelting from laterite ores, so it might have been impossible to get away from the nickel inclusion.

EDIT

There was a big project a while back that looked closely at this matter, I'm pretty sure it was called the "OXIS Project" and a very good paper was written on it by a Misol Do, I have a copy of the paper but i cannot find it on the net, I'm sure somebody with more time than I have could locate it.

David · 6th March 2023, 12:52 PM

Is this what you were looking for Alan?
https://www.oxis.org/theses/misol-2103.pdf

A. G. Maisey · 6th March 2023, 08:16 PM

Yeah, that's the one.

There was another one I think that was organised by some Australian academics. I've totally forgotten the details.

rasdan · 7th March 2023, 02:38 AM

G'day Alan,

Perhaps this is the other one? It was written by Dr. David Bulbeck of ANU.

https://oxis.org/downloads/land-of-iron.pdf

A. G. Maisey · 7th March 2023, 03:55 AM

Thanks Rasdan, yep, that's it.

In fact I've got a copy of this paper in my computer too, but I'd forgotten the title & details.

I tend to run a lot on memory, and these days my memory is not all that great, I remember some things well enough, other things I partially remember, the folder I keep these papers in is about 6gb - 7gb & its not really well organised.

If I'm actually working on something I survive OK, but if the matter is peripheral, I often do not remember much at all.

rasdan · 7th March 2023, 11:41 AM

No worries Alan. I have the same problem. I have been "collecting" online references on keris for several years now and most of them are scattered all over my hard drive I can't even locate them.

6th March 2023, 11:41 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,018	Yes Jean, of course. I sometimes do get a little bit too focused on Jawa/Bali. Luwu was a major producer & exporter of nickel/iron, and was producing this from very early times --- & still is. Hardjonegoro gave me some Luwu nickel, but I never got around to using it. There have been some quite informative archeological investigations of work sites carried out in South Sulawesi, especially around Lake Matano & Katue, I think some of the Kutue sites date back to the first millenium. You're right Jean, I should stop & think for a moment before extending my Jawa focused thoughts into other places. So we can just delete my off the cuff comment, & I thank you Jean for waking me up. However, from memory, I think that those South Sulawesi smelts produced iron/nickel alloy, cannot recall if there was any evidence of pure iron smelting. I think they were smelting from laterite ores, so it might have been impossible to get away from the nickel inclusion. EDIT There was a big project a while back that looked closely at this matter, I'm pretty sure it was called the "OXIS Project" and a very good paper was written on it by a Misol Do, I have a copy of the paper but i cannot find it on the net, I'm sure somebody with more time than I have could locate it. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 6th March 2023 at 12:03 PM. Reason: additional info

6th March 2023, 12:52 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Is this what you were looking for Alan? https://www.oxis.org/theses/misol-2103.pdf

6th March 2023, 08:16 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,018	Yeah, that's the one. There was another one I think that was organised by some Australian academics. I've totally forgotten the details.

7th March 2023, 02:38 AM	#5
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	G'day Alan, Perhaps this is the other one? It was written by Dr. David Bulbeck of ANU. https://oxis.org/downloads/land-of-iron.pdf

7th March 2023, 03:55 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,018	Thanks Rasdan, yep, that's it. In fact I've got a copy of this paper in my computer too, but I'd forgotten the title & details. I tend to run a lot on memory, and these days my memory is not all that great, I remember some things well enough, other things I partially remember, the folder I keep these papers in is about 6gb - 7gb & its not really well organised. If I'm actually working on something I survive OK, but if the matter is peripheral, I often do not remember much at all.

7th March 2023, 11:41 AM	#7
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	No worries Alan. I have the same problem. I have been "collecting" online references on keris for several years now and most of them are scattered all over my hard drive I can't even locate them.