New Acquisition, Mandau, said to be 1800's

kai · 21st February 2023, 11:39 PM

Hello Joe,

Quote:

yes it is concave convex, I believe I mentioned that, and tried desperately to photo it, these photos should help.

I'm not sure these pics really help...

You realise that we're speaking of the cross-section of the blade? (There shouldn't be any bend along the long blade axis.)

BTW, the final curvature of the blade (back) depends obviously not only on the quenching but also on the initial configuration. A good blade smith takes this into account to obtain the intended final shape. Many mandau have a pretty straight edge while there are also quite a few with fairly curved blades.

Regards,
Kai

JoeCanada42 · 22nd February 2023, 01:52 AM

Yes the cross section is convex on one side and concave on the other.
I tried to photo this earlier, and recently aswell, when in your hand you can definitely notice it, I tried taking photos looking at the blade from the point but it doesn't show much, I will work some more on a good photo later. in person looking from the point you can defenitly see these angles

and yes the angle of the blade has a slight curve sideways, upwards if your right handed, I show this in the recent photos I posted. i have a moroco nimcha and talwar also with small slight curve sideways like this near the point.
i beleive this was also to help with cutting, to avoid the shoulder when say taking a head,

schola gladiatora has a youtube video where he mentions this, and many other mandau sword I seen on youtube had that angle as well as the concave convex cross section. that sideways bend is the one i referred too having seen more pronounced on other mandaus.

JoeCanada42 · 22nd February 2023, 02:05 AM

the tjikeroeh swords do seem to be interesting and very similar...

I still need to research English Wilkinson blades sold in the area.

the tang does not seem to be welded, it is very corroded black but seems flush and solid except for that little bit of extra metal( and i was pretty shure it was metal), I did give it a second look when I noticed that before you mentioned it, and as far as I can tell it looks like one solid piece, not shure why that would be left there, thinking about it now ,..maybe someone tried to solder a replacement guard? I will also try to get better photos of that part.

and werecrow thank you very much for sharing that photo, maybe it will help solve the mystery. I'm guna look into the markings myself, hopefully though someone else has seen similar ,

Kai, how about the style of the Gagang ?

JoeCanada42 · 22nd February 2023, 02:20 AM

here it is again highlighting a previous photo

David · 22nd February 2023, 05:24 AM

Joe, no matter how many times i look at the photos you posted i am afraid i am just not seeing a concave/convex cross-section on you blade. It should look something like this.

JoeCanada42 · 22nd February 2023, 05:24 AM

I want to share a though I had before I forget it...

ever play hockey as a kid,
with those cheap plastic hockey sticks,
and you almost instinctually bend blade,
so you can have a good slap shot

JoeCanada42 · 22nd February 2023, 05:42 AM

the cross section as i see it
in actuality the cross section doesn't come to the sharp point till past the dotted line
the concaveness starts really to show also at the end of the dotted line at as it becomes sharp

* here edited to have more proper picture

Ian · 23rd February 2023, 12:31 PM

Hi Joe,

Interesting sword that you have shown in some detail. I agree with the comment that this hilt is made from antler rather than bone. The carved structures show a lovely amber color that seems to come from handling, sweat, dirt, and smoke (from indoor fires), a color distinctive of older Borneo hilts that have been used a lot. The angle of the carving that juts out from the hilt is not anatomically consistent with a primate bony structure.

As to age, it is very hard to judge from pictures. Your hilt certainly looks as though it could be a hundred years or more old. Again, I would base that on the patina of the hilt.

The blade is an odd one and very hard to assess with the substantial oxidation and grime on it. Whether or not it is a mandau is hard to say, but others have given you reasons why it may not be. If you want to know more about this blade, I would suggest cleaning it and taking it back to white if you can. That will give a much clearer idea of any marks that may be on it. If you want to darken the blade again, treatment with vinegar produces a nice grayness and will sometimes pick out laminated elements. Make sure then to oil it well or use a micro-silicone wax (e.g. Renaissance Wax) to limit rusting,

I would leave the hilt as it is. That patina is attractive IMHO and honestly come by over time.

Regards, Ian.

Ian · 23rd February 2023, 01:00 PM

Joe, when I enlarged the letter "G" on your blade, it has a somewhat unusual appearance. The serif at the end of the top curve is entirely above the terminus of the curve. This is hinted at in a number of fonts (mostly old) but this example is about the most extreme I've seen. At the bottom end, there is another oddity. As the bottom end of the curve approaches the vertical leg of the G, it takes an abrupt dive to join the bottom of the leg. Again, I can't recall seeing that in another antique font.

I'm not an expert on fonts, but I have read a bit about them and I find the various styles interesting. Perhaps there is someone here who recognises this form of the letter G. I'm fairly sure it's not a British font and that the style probably predates 1900.

A blow up of the letter is attached.

22nd February 2023, 02:20 AM	#4
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	here it is again highlighting a previous photo Attached Images

22nd February 2023, 05:24 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,261	Joe, no matter how many times i look at the photos you posted i am afraid i am just not seeing a concave/convex cross-section on you blade. It should look something like this. Attached Images

22nd February 2023, 05:42 AM	#7
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	the cross section as i see it in actuality the cross section doesn't come to the sharp point till past the dotted line the concaveness starts really to show also at the end of the dotted line at as it becomes sharp * here edited to have more proper picture Attached Images Last edited by JoeCanada42; 22nd February 2023 at 09:04 AM.

23rd February 2023, 01:00 PM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,613	Joe, when I enlarged the letter "G" on your blade, it has a somewhat unusual appearance. The serif at the end of the top curve is entirely above the terminus of the curve. This is hinted at in a number of fonts (mostly old) but this example is about the most extreme I've seen. At the bottom end, there is another oddity. As the bottom end of the curve approaches the vertical leg of the G, it takes an abrupt dive to join the bottom of the leg. Again, I can't recall seeing that in another antique font. I'm not an expert on fonts, but I have read a bit about them and I find the various styles interesting. Perhaps there is someone here who recognises this form of the letter G. I'm fairly sure it's not a British font and that the style probably predates 1900. A blow up of the letter is attached. Attached Images

22nd February 2023, 01:52 AM	#2
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	Yes the cross section is convex on one side and concave on the other. I tried to photo this earlier, and recently aswell, when in your hand you can definitely notice it, I tried taking photos looking at the blade from the point but it doesn't show much, I will work some more on a good photo later. in person looking from the point you can defenitly see these angles and yes the angle of the blade has a slight curve sideways, upwards if your right handed, I show this in the recent photos I posted. i have a moroco nimcha and talwar also with small slight curve sideways like this near the point. i beleive this was also to help with cutting, to avoid the shoulder when say taking a head, schola gladiatora has a youtube video where he mentions this, and many other mandau sword I seen on youtube had that angle as well as the concave convex cross section. that sideways bend is the one i referred too having seen more pronounced on other mandaus.

22nd February 2023, 02:05 AM	#3
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	the tjikeroeh swords do seem to be interesting and very similar... I still need to research English Wilkinson blades sold in the area. the tang does not seem to be welded, it is very corroded black but seems flush and solid except for that little bit of extra metal( and i was pretty shure it was metal), I did give it a second look when I noticed that before you mentioned it, and as far as I can tell it looks like one solid piece, not shure why that would be left there, thinking about it now ,..maybe someone tried to solder a replacement guard? I will also try to get better photos of that part. and werecrow thank you very much for sharing that photo, maybe it will help solve the mystery. I'm guna look into the markings myself, hopefully though someone else has seen similar , Kai, how about the style of the Gagang ?

23rd February 2023, 12:31 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,613	Hi Joe, Interesting sword that you have shown in some detail. I agree with the comment that this hilt is made from antler rather than bone. The carved structures show a lovely amber color that seems to come from handling, sweat, dirt, and smoke (from indoor fires), a color distinctive of older Borneo hilts that have been used a lot. The angle of the carving that juts out from the hilt is not anatomically consistent with a primate bony structure. As to age, it is very hard to judge from pictures. Your hilt certainly looks as though it could be a hundred years or more old. Again, I would base that on the patina of the hilt. The blade is an odd one and very hard to assess with the substantial oxidation and grime on it. Whether or not it is a mandau is hard to say, but others have given you reasons why it may not be. If you want to know more about this blade, I would suggest cleaning it and taking it back to white if you can. That will give a much clearer idea of any marks that may be on it. If you want to darken the blade again, treatment with vinegar produces a nice grayness and will sometimes pick out laminated elements. Make sure then to oil it well or use a micro-silicone wax (e.g. Renaissance Wax) to limit rusting, I would leave the hilt as it is. That patina is attractive IMHO and honestly come by over time. Regards, Ian.