Another one I've had for 20+ years

David · 31st January 2023, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Thanks for that caveat David. Yes, it might have been sized up.

LOL! Anything is possible Ian, but i was clearly inferring that i didn't think that was the case.

jagabuwana · 31st January 2023, 11:04 AM

Thank you for the additional photo, Ian.
I believe that this is a pretty clear cut example of a Tuban gonjo.

A. G. Maisey · 31st January 2023, 11:06 PM

Yes Jaga, stylistically this gonjo is a good example of a Tuban keris that retains the original gonjo form.

This form is often presented as nguceng mati (dead fish) which from above is straight sided with the buntut urang being sharply pointed, this sharp point has been caused by erosion over time, the original shape is still straight sided, but the buntut urang is cutoff short, resulting in a gonjo shorter than most other gonjos, and a very narrow buntut urang.

From the side, a Tuban gonjo should be rather thick, and the gonjo on this keris is rather thick.

Where this keris appears to fail a Tuban classification is in the nature of the pamor, I say "appears" because I cannot feel texture from a photo. If a Tuban keris has ngulit semongko pamor, that pamor should be smooth to the touch, the pamor on this keris appears to have a rough texture, and that, plus the other things we can see in a photo, puts it into the Madura box.

But I guess we could still consider a Tuban classification. It is as I think we all understand:- there are limitations to what we can do with a photo, anything relatively positive can only come with the keris in hand.

Ian · 4th February 2023, 09:10 AM

Alan,

I think the texture looks rougher than it actually is because I used some photoshopping to sharpen the close-up pictures—you can see the threads of the cloth in the background of some of some of the images. As I rub my fingers over it, there is a "graininess" to the texture, equivalent to perhaps a 600 or 800 grit sandpaper. Definitely not as smooth as a 1500 grit paper. Does that help at all?

A. G. Maisey · 5th February 2023, 07:48 PM

Ian, if you can feel texture, then, it is not smooth.

In fact the textbook Tuban feeling is slightly slippery, but really, we do need the blade in hand to give any sort of supportable classification, the idea that we can do much more than just a preliminary assessment from an image on a screen is incorrect.

jagabuwana · 7th February 2023, 02:11 AM

Alan, thank you for the information on the Tuban indicators.

Is the smooth pamor indicator one that also belongs to the Tuban subclassificafions like Tuban Mataram, Pajajaran etc.?

A. G. Maisey · 7th February 2023, 09:41 PM

I cannot give a definitive answer to this question, Jaga.

My notes only mention this smooth feeling for Tuban-Tuban, they do not mention the slippery feel, but I have noted the slippery feel in more than a few Tuban-Tuban keris.

My notes do not mention a smooth feel to pamor for other Tuban sub-classifications, & I have not really noted it --- what I mean is that in some cases there might have been a slippery feel, & in other cases not, but in any case it was insufficient for me to take particular note.

The other classification that comes readily to mind for slippery feel is Gresik, the belief was that Gresik used Dutch coins for pamor construction.

4th February 2023, 09:10 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,522	Alan, I think the texture looks rougher than it actually is because I used some photoshopping to sharpen the close-up pictures—you can see the threads of the cloth in the background of some of some of the images. As I rub my fingers over it, there is a "graininess" to the texture, equivalent to perhaps a 600 or 800 grit sandpaper. Definitely not as smooth as a 1500 grit paper. Does that help at all? Last edited by Ian; 4th February 2023 at 10:30 AM.

31st January 2023, 11:04 AM	#2
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 292	Thank you for the additional photo, Ian. I believe that this is a pretty clear cut example of a Tuban gonjo.

31st January 2023, 11:06 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Yes Jaga, stylistically this gonjo is a good example of a Tuban keris that retains the original gonjo form. This form is often presented as nguceng mati (dead fish) which from above is straight sided with the buntut urang being sharply pointed, this sharp point has been caused by erosion over time, the original shape is still straight sided, but the buntut urang is cutoff short, resulting in a gonjo shorter than most other gonjos, and a very narrow buntut urang. From the side, a Tuban gonjo should be rather thick, and the gonjo on this keris is rather thick. Where this keris appears to fail a Tuban classification is in the nature of the pamor, I say "appears" because I cannot feel texture from a photo. If a Tuban keris has ngulit semongko pamor, that pamor should be smooth to the touch, the pamor on this keris appears to have a rough texture, and that, plus the other things we can see in a photo, puts it into the Madura box. But I guess we could still consider a Tuban classification. It is as I think we all understand:- there are limitations to what we can do with a photo, anything relatively positive can only come with the keris in hand.

5th February 2023, 07:48 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Ian, if you can feel texture, then, it is not smooth. In fact the textbook Tuban feeling is slightly slippery, but really, we do need the blade in hand to give any sort of supportable classification, the idea that we can do much more than just a preliminary assessment from an image on a screen is incorrect.

7th February 2023, 02:11 AM	#6
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 292	Alan, thank you for the information on the Tuban indicators. Is the smooth pamor indicator one that also belongs to the Tuban subclassificafions like Tuban Mataram, Pajajaran etc.?

7th February 2023, 09:41 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	I cannot give a definitive answer to this question, Jaga. My notes only mention this smooth feeling for Tuban-Tuban, they do not mention the slippery feel, but I have noted the slippery feel in more than a few Tuban-Tuban keris. My notes do not mention a smooth feel to pamor for other Tuban sub-classifications, & I have not really noted it --- what I mean is that in some cases there might have been a slippery feel, & in other cases not, but in any case it was insufficient for me to take particular note. The other classification that comes readily to mind for slippery feel is Gresik, the belief was that Gresik used Dutch coins for pamor construction.