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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 291
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Nice keris, Ian.
If it were me, I'd take a look at the silhouette of the gonjo looking at it from top down, to see if it would support a Tuban classification. Last edited by jagabuwana; 28th January 2023 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Brain fart |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 146
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Hi Ian,
Keraton Pamekasan refers to Madura court Pamor kulit semangka = pamor watermelon skin Tilam upe might refer to the dhapur (form) of the keris. In Java it would be called Tilam Upih. However normally dhapur Tilam Upih would have a tikel alis, which I do not see here. Without tikel alis then the dhapur would be called Brojol. |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 369
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Hi Ian,
I am not sure. But every time I see a straight keris with broad pamor and coarse iron like that I intuitively think of Madura. Because a lot of Madurese keris with luks have similar pamor style and iron. Or maybe we can just call it East Java to be safe - because Madura is geographically in East Java. Last edited by rasdan; 28th January 2023 at 12:31 PM. Reason: spelling |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,047
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Nothing much to add to what has already been wriiten, just a few comments:-
1) I doubt that Pamekesan ever had a kraton, its status is as a Kabupaten, a regency, I'm not all that familiar with the history of Pamekasan, but I believe that it never had a Sultan, nor a Sunan, it was always under the ultimate control of Sumenep, which was a Sultanate. It might have had an Istana, ie, palace, where the Bupati (regent) lived, but if no Sultan or Sunan, it could not have had a Kraton. 2) dress is Central Jawa, Solo style 3) not tilam upih, but as YS has said, brojol 4) the "upe" spelling is perfectly understandable, a non-native speaker hearing the word could easily give it that spelling, as could a poorly educated native speaker --- I get emails frequently from several people in Solo who left school before they entered high school, and writing in both Javanese & BI their spellings sometimes do take a bit of effort to understand. 5) I'm of a like mind with Rasdan on blade origin, I would give this blade as Madura without a second though --- if I did have a second thought I might give it as East Jawa, thus including Madura, but throwing the net wider. Pamor ngulit semangko --- kulit semangka --- and a couple of other alternate spellings. Edit I think you might be right about Tuban Jaga, that gonjo looks very much like it could be nguceng mati. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 28th January 2023 at 07:05 PM. Reason: The Third Thought |
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#5 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,229
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I don't have much to add here either, except to say that i find it to be an attractive keris. Can you show us a photo from above showing the fit to the sheath. I am curious to know if this East Jawa blade Solo sheath was made specifically for this blade. Thanks!
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#6 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 928
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widening a sheath to hold a blade is easy, tightening it without adding anything is a little more difficult
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#7 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,229
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Though i personally enjoy a wrongko that has been well adapted with inserted wood to fit a smaller blade profile. It generally shows that the owner valued that sheath for some reason. I have a couple of nice wrongko like that which were refitted because they are well made from desirable wood. |
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