Tatar saber for discussion

Edster · 7th January 2023, 01:24 AM

Jim,

Your symbols/tribal sword marks are remindful of Sudanese tribal camel brands collected in Darfur to document its history 1200-1700. Most derive from Berber alphabet letters and also indicate other symbolic ownership elements. Sorry they won't copy, but see p.223 and discussion in this 1951 Sudan Notes & Records article
https://sci-hub.se/10.2307/41719553

On Camel Brands, I.G. Hill, SNRV.53, 1972
https://sci-hub.se/10.2307/42678007

Also a 1882 US cattle brand book.
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/...age/3/mode/1up

Best,
Ed

Jim McDougall · 7th January 2023, 03:10 AM

Ed, this is an amazing seque which is well observed, and speaks directly to my long fascination with markings, symbols and as you note, including brands. Many years back as I was researching markings found on North African swords, in particular the kaskaras, I had the idea that perhaps some of these might have some connection to ancient Egyptian heiroglyphs.
In looking into that, I read MacMichael (1913) , "The Brands Used by Chief Camel Owning Tribes of Kordofan", as noted in these great links you provided!
Actually, while not a major influence, it seems there were cases where there was indeed some connection to hieroglyphics and some brands.

Tribal symbolism has no boundaries, and is one of the most fascinating aspects of these studies, thank you so much! These articles are outstanding.

7th January 2023, 01:24 AM	#1
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 440	Jim, Your symbols/tribal sword marks are remindful of Sudanese tribal camel brands collected in Darfur to document its history 1200-1700. Most derive from Berber alphabet letters and also indicate other symbolic ownership elements. Sorry they won't copy, but see p.223 and discussion in this 1951 Sudan Notes & Records article https://sci-hub.se/10.2307/41719553 On Camel Brands, I.G. Hill, SNRV.53, 1972 https://sci-hub.se/10.2307/42678007 Also a 1882 US cattle brand book. https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/...age/3/mode/1up Best, Ed

7th January 2023, 03:10 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,589	Ed, this is an amazing seque which is well observed, and speaks directly to my long fascination with markings, symbols and as you note, including brands. Many years back as I was researching markings found on North African swords, in particular the kaskaras, I had the idea that perhaps some of these might have some connection to ancient Egyptian heiroglyphs. In looking into that, I read MacMichael (1913) , "The Brands Used by Chief Camel Owning Tribes of Kordofan", as noted in these great links you provided! Actually, while not a major influence, it seems there were cases where there was indeed some connection to hieroglyphics and some brands. Tribal symbolism has no boundaries, and is one of the most fascinating aspects of these studies, thank you so much! These articles are outstanding.