Coyness in posting keris pics

[rasdan]

Hi Sid,

I know someone who does not share his collections openly mainly because he does not want to educate unwanted people by whatever small knowledge that might be generated from the photos/online knowledge sharing.

Some people likes being seen as keris specialist with little or no knowledge at all and many of this people have communication skills of a snake oil salesman. They can be very confident making statements with their make believe knowledge or knowledge that they just dig up online from other people's sharing to impress the public or his followers. And a lot of times these people mislead the public and his followers. Some can even make money out of it.

Obtaining keris knowledge is hard, you need to learn a lot of things, takes a long time and costs a lot. And the last thing this person want to do is to educate arrogant, pretentious people. To each their own I guess.

[A. G. Maisey]

Sid, my approach to this idea of sharing a personal keris with strangers began the very first time I went to Indonesia. I visited Jogja, I could not speak Indonesian, I hired a guide to show me around.

We were in the North Alun-alun and I saw one of the Jogja Kraton attendants (abdi dalem) dressed in traditional attire and with an interesting keris in his setagen (sash). I asked my guide if it might be possible ask this Javanese gentleman to see his keris. I was as green as grass. It was explained to me that if I were to do this it would be the height of bad manners and that there was no way of predicting the result of my rudeness.

In Jawa & in other keris bearing societies, a man's keris represents the man himself. To permit somebody to see that keris is exactly the same as permitting somebody to see you absolutely naked, but more than this, you not only expose your body, you expose your soul, along with all your hopes, dreams and fears.

It is a cultural thing Sid, and those people who wish to demonstrate respect to the culture from which the keris has come do not permit strangers to see keris that they might have in their custody.

[SidJ]

Thanks for your responses thus far. I can see why sharing pics may serve to enrich dishonest people. And I see also how in Java etc showing a keris can reveal a lot to strangers. But arent the reasons for this as follows:
1. Those keris are of deep personal significance with them being made to suit the owner or ancestral objects.
2. People only had one keris generally and did not seek to acquire collections as we know

Now we have a context where keris are traded internationally as commodities on the online market. Collectors buy large numbers of these based on various criteria. The keris is not made for them and is not an ancestral object. It is an object of art totally removed from the context Alan described I would think. A cherished keris today can on a whim be sold off the next. There is not remotely the connection between keris and custodian as occurs in the home nations. On this basis then this practice of not sharing keris images might be seen as merely giving a cursory whimsical, respectful and well meaning superficial nod to the culture but nothing more. A harsher view might be that this is a bit of convenient cultural appropriation. And might it be said that the collector who does post images recognises that they are not operating in the home nation cultural context at all and their appreciation is of a different but no less disrespectful flavour. Like a western appreciation of fine art in its purest sense? I again emphasise I mean no disrespect to anyone. I am only trying to find my own way through this ethical morass. I know there is no right or wrong way. But is there a better way to act?

[Anthony G.]

This is what I have experienced personally where your keris photo has been used by scammers who use it to scam unaware victims who thinks the keris belongs to the scammers.

After paying for it, the scammers just disappear.

[A. G. Maisey]

Actually Sid, most collectors do not have problems with showing their acquisitions to whomever may wish to look.

That is exactly what I said in post #2:-

"The pure collectors are usually more than happy to display their possessions, whereas the people who are students of the keris and who have learnt that the etiquette in most, if not all keris bearing cultures is to keep those keris that they regard as personal keris hidden from the eyes of strangers."

The people who do not want to display their keris are those who are culturally conscious. Very often they are people who have had some contact with the culture, and/or society of the places where keris are viewed as sacred objects, iconic objects, religious objects. In my own case, I have many years of contact with members of Javanese & Balinese society, I have been instructed at length in the correct way to behave over many years by people whom I respect and who in turn respect me. I would not ever betray the trust that my friends and teachers have placed in me.

But an ordinary collector, especially a collector in a society that is outside the core society of origin of the keris does not bear the obligations that I, and some other people bear. A pure collector rarely knows very much about what he collects, many collectors of keris feel very satisfied with their level of knowledge if they can identify a Surakarta keris as distinct from a Jogja keris.

I can see no real reason why a collector who only focuses on names and physical attributes of keris should hide his keris from other people.

Essentially Sid, whether to show or not to show is a personal decision once we move outside the society of origin, if one is comfortable with letting everybody in the entire world seeing what they lock into their double dial Chubb safe in the security room, then by all means go ahead and show. Those who are not comfortable with letting anybody except close friends look at what they have, well then, of course they will act a trifle more conservatively.

Personal decision Sid:- do it or don't do it, its up to you.

[milandro]

I have come across this a couple of times outside of this forum ( on the forum I have also read , can't remember were exactly or by whom, that some members weren't inclined to show their own " private" kris' images and I certainly respect that.)

However I came across a couple of times people selling their kris and showing it only sheathed, now that, frankly, I don't understand.

I tried to say to them that logic, would demand that if I were to purchase, especially at a distance, a kris, I would need to look at the blade.

The answer was that they were told that it was bad luck to show a kris' blade.

[David]

Sid, this has been a internal dilemma for me since i began collecting keris. For a long time i followed the path that Alan has taken and never published any of my collection. But as i have gotten older, it seems to me personally that when in discussion about keris with other ardent collectors it is sometimes useful to post one of my collection as an example if it helps to bring further knowledge to that discussion. That said, there are still many keris in my collection that i have never shown publicly and probably never will. Despite being outside of the culture i still have formed my own personal and private connections with certain keris in my collection and for what ever reason consider those particular blades "not for public viewing". If someone whats to see that as cultural appropriation, well, that's their problem, not mine. Of course, then there are a few "personal" pieces in my collection which, after some internal struggle, i have decided to publish. There are probably a few different reasons for that, depending on the blade, but usually it is because it is something that i just haven't seen much of out there and i feel it would benefit the community as a whole to be able to see it. Then i have posted a keris here and there because there is an aspect about it that i really want to know more about and the most obvious way to gather that knowledge is by showing the blade to a group of fellow collectors. But again, there are still certain blades i have no intention on ever posting publicly.
I participate, as you know, in numerous collector forums, so i do see a lot of keris on line. I do hope that i never post images of any of my keris in a "showy" manner. While i am, of course, happy to view the collections of others in these forums, i do tend to find the show and tell atmosphere just a bit annoying sometimes. It is all too often people simply showing off their latest acquisition with a large slice of pride and sometimes that can seem a bit disrespectful to both culture and the keris itself. The other thing that irks me in these other forums (most people know better here) is when posting a keris leads to all kinds of strangers inquiring about purchasing it. This is another reason i am always hesitant to post anything. To me it seems like the epitome of rudeness to ask about purchasing someones prized keris. It's the kind of thing one expects from the stereotype of the ignorant American tourist who is visiting a foreign culture an thinks they can just buy everything they see that meets their fancy. It's just a matter of extremely poor taste IMHO. When someone does decide to post their keris we should all consider ourself fortunate they are sharing what might be a very personal object for them.

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by milandro

I have come across this a couple of times outside of this forum ( on the forum I have also read , can't remember were exactly or by whom, that some members weren't inclined to show their own " private" kris' images and I certainly respect that.)

However I came across a couple of times people selling their kris and showing it only sheathed, now that, frankly, I don't understand.

I tried to say to them that logic, would demand that if I were to purchase, especially at a distance, a kris, I would need to look at the blade.

The answer was that they were told that it was bad luck to show a kris' blade.

I found it rather strange, how can we as a buyer buy a keris without looking at the bilah condition first. No view, equals to no pay.