Hi,new member and a question please

[Bontee]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Just a suggestion....do not over polish/clean it as you will likely remove any age patina. It maybe 20th century but that was LAST century.
Stu

Thanks Khanjar,Would you mind giving me your opinion on the “age,patina”I have come across this a number of times.It comes up in old weapons,banjos ,guns etc .Does the accumulation of ,can I bluntly call it “crud”have any influence on the values of these things.I can understand it on much more valuable older relics but on a knife like this which I am guessing has little or no real value (which as I have said isn’t of interest to me.) really matter ?.
A friend of mine plays banjo and he has a couple of very nice instruments,one modern one much older and he refuses to clean the old one ,I wouldn’t touch it if he let me ,it just looks filthy to me,he insists it is to be kept original.
Would cleaning this old knife up and polishing the blade be considered “not the thing to do”
many thanks again
all the best
Kevin

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Bontee

Thanks Khanjar,Would you mind giving me your opinion on the “age,patina”I have come across this a number of times.It comes up in old weapons,banjos ,guns etc .Does the accumulation of ,can I bluntly call it “crud”have any influence on the values of these things.I can understand it on much more valuable older relics but on a knife like this which I am guessing has little or no real value (which as I have said isn’t of interest to me.) really matter ?.
A friend of mine plays banjo and he has a couple of very nice instruments,one modern one much older and he refuses to clean the old one ,I wouldn’t touch it if he let me ,it just looks filthy to me,he insists it is to be kept original.
Would cleaning this old knife up and polishing the blade be considered “not the thing to do”
many thanks again
all the best
Kevin

Hi Kevin,
I see others have replied so you should have some guidance as to what is best for you to do to your Arm Dagger.... (nice piece by the way). What I mean by "age patina" is best shown by the pic attached of some brass Middle Eastern coffee pots I have. All have "age patina" and we are all aware of what brass looks like when polished. IMHO, these would not "look right" if highly polished. Hope this is of help.
Stu

[Bontee]

Thank you all very much,this is far more response than I had hoped for and I will treat the knife with the respect it deserves.
It is always good to find a forum where people are so happy to help ,some are not so good.
I will post pictures of my katana for your interest.I have found out quite a lot about it and although it has been subjected to a hard life and is a shadow of its former self I like it.Both the katana and the Armdagger were gifts and for that reason alone they mean much to me.
Thank you all again
kevin

[Bontee]

Oh yes and thank you Jim ,I was wondering about the engraving on the blade.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Bontee

Oh yes and thank you Jim ,I was wondering about the engraving on the blade.

My pleasure Bontee, and glad to have you here! Your dagger is a good example of a tribal dagger and I know I have seen that geometric pattern before, it seems mostly on dagger blades of these regions.

[Richard G]

I would venture Darfur, ('home of the Fur people'), Western Sudan, as the origin.
Best wishes
Richard

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Richard G

I would venture Darfur, ('home of the Fur people'), Western Sudan, as the origin.
Best wishes
Richard

Very much agree Richard, note the apparent favor of the geometric 'lozenge' or diamond pattern in Darfur motif (Reed, 1987, attached plate). The symbolism or reason for favor of this shape is unclear but seems well established.
This hilt style is deemed 'of Ali Dinar period' loosely for the 'last Sultan of Darfur'(d.1916).
The figure in the photo is Austrian Rudolf Slatin, who was governor of Darfur and captured by the Mahdi in his campaigns in 1880s. It shows the manner in which these daggers were worn.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Very much agree Richard, note the apparent favor of the geometric 'lozenge' or diamond pattern in Darfur motif (Reed, 1987, attached plate). The symbolism or reason for favor of this shape is unclear but seems well established.
This hilt style is deemed 'of Ali Dinar period' loosely for the 'last Sultan of Darfur'(d.1916).
The figure in the photo is Austrian Rudolf Slatin, who was governor of Darfur and captured by the Mahdi in his campaigns in 1880s. It shows the manner in which these daggers were worn.

Interesting photo Jim. I note he is leaning on a Martini Henry rifle...captured from the Brits??
Stu

[ariel]

I have always advocated cleaning as little as possible, preserving patina as an evidence of age: kisses of time, so to speak. But nothing is absolute: sometimes we get an obviously old item that is covered with gunk, crud and rust to the point of such a terminal ugliness that no old soldier would touch it with a barge pole. And “gentle cleaning” of the red rust just uncovers deeper and deeper defects that will progress unabated with time but meanwhile mutilate the item to the point of disgust.
I have an admission to make: on couple of occasions I had to clean things aggressively. The deep “ french kisses of time” were lost , but just a quick glance of the entire item was sufficient to establish its true age. Nihl had a very valid argument in favor of that approach. I have a Khazar saber that was pitted, rusty and covered in lime deposits. A bath of vinegar with subsequent mechanical cleaning eliminated rust, lime and some superficial scales of rusty metal originally held together by lime just fell off, and “Renaissance Wax” will hopefully preserve the entire relic for another couple of centuries. The saber remained totally unusable on the battlefield, but has retained its historical value.

Hamlet’s “ I must be cruel only to be kind” still holds true on occasion.
Human medicine is essentially based on this principle, with chemotherapies, radiations, surgeries, amputations and innumerable side effects of virtually all drugs.

[Jim McDougall]

Very well said Ariel, and what I was trying to say but clearly fell short when I used the term 'old warrior' wistfully toward my own swords which are pretty 'aged' (like me) but still very proud