Crudely Carved Hilt - Seeking Information - Buta Nawasari?

A. G. Maisey · 2nd November 2022, 03:22 AM

No Jaga.

My idea of work when it comes to these sort of things is to have something in the back of my mind and when opportunities arise in the field --- in this case, in Bali --- ask questions or prompt discussions. I do not go after something by looking at everything ever published, I do not take all that much notice of the opinions of people from outside the society. I do try to extract ideas, knowledge & opinions from locals, on the ground.

Now, this sort of washes over onto your "Mediterranean" question. When I wrote that I don't know what was in my mind, but if we look at the way the old Greek & Roman gods and goddesses were thought of, the general opinion of them throughout society, seemed to be pretty consistent, and I guess that does to a degree reflect the European way of acting & reacting. There are goodies & baddies, goodies do good things, baddies do bad things, and the old gods were a bit like elevated humans.

But in Bali we have a different way of thinking about the gods & goddesses, no god or goddess is totally good or bad, and the way in which gods and goddesses are thought of can & does vary from one village to another.

Like --- let's talk about Durga for a minute. I do not recall ever talking with a western person who had an interest in Balinese or Hindu-Buddhist matters who did not immediately ID Durga as the very embodiment of blood thirsty evil.

OK, Durga was not always Uma or Parvati or Gauri, she was also Candika & Bhairavi & the Durga that non-Hindu Westerners usually think of. These names i have quoted are just a few of Durga's names. More than a few of my Hindu mates have Durga as a household deity. Durga can be both good and bad, and like most gods everywhere, can be in different places at the same time, & thus doing both good & evil at the same time.

The ideal is that that good & evil should always be in balance, it is no more desirable for a period of time to reflect all good, as it is for it to reflect all bad.

The real problems arise when things get out of balance.

Consider this:if a period of time is given over totally to good, that automatically means that for the world to get back into balance there must be an equivalent period given over to evil.

Imagine that, total evil everywhichway we turn, no escape. Not a good prospect, but if we have equal & balancing quotas of good & evil existing in the same period, life becomes bearable.

And that concept of "bearable" is about as much as any of us can reasonably hope for.

So, to get back to Bali & Durga, in village "A" Durga might be thought of as Candika, but a few kilometers up the road at village "B" she might be thought of as Parvati. Different names, different characters, but the same goddess, and if represented in art, she will look different.

This is just one of the problems of identifying identifying characters in art --- totogan hilts for example. If we know exactly where the carving was from, who carved it, when it was carved, and for what purpose, then we have a fair to reasonable chance of identifying the character. If we do not --- good luck.

ariel · 13th November 2022, 08:59 PM

Do not know much about Kris hilts or Indonesian wood carvings.

But what if this is not a crude slapdash amateur thingie, but just a rough preliminary and unfinished handle?
I suspect 8 that unsigned Rembrandt’s sketches would not sell even for a price of Big Mack.

A. G. Maisey · 13th November 2022, 09:51 PM

It might well be Ariel, but as with many things associated with art/craft work in Jawa/Bali, we don't really know unless we are there watching while the thing is produced. Often we just guess.

David · 13th November 2022, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

But what if this is not a crude slapdash amateur thingie, but just a rough preliminary and unfinished handle?

I never imagined we would have so much to say about such a terrible little carving.
I will step out on a limb where perhaps Alan would rather not. Firstly i have seen many of these rough little "Nawa Sari" hilts, though this is possibly one of the roughest. They generally accompany Bali tourist keris, the ones that are stock reduction blades with fake pamor. So this is nothing unusual.
Secondly, if this was just a roughed out "sketch" awaiting a finishing hand, from the looks of it there would not be enough wood left to form a proper togogan hilt once the details were carved.
Lastly, at least to my eye, the wood appears to have had some finish put on it.
But even if that were the case, why would it matter. It is what it appears to be, w roughly carved figurative hilt of very little appeal or value that would not be a very respectable choice for any Bali keris.

2nd November 2022, 03:22 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	No Jaga. My idea of work when it comes to these sort of things is to have something in the back of my mind and when opportunities arise in the field --- in this case, in Bali --- ask questions or prompt discussions. I do not go after something by looking at everything ever published, I do not take all that much notice of the opinions of people from outside the society. I do try to extract ideas, knowledge & opinions from locals, on the ground. Now, this sort of washes over onto your "Mediterranean" question. When I wrote that I don't know what was in my mind, but if we look at the way the old Greek & Roman gods and goddesses were thought of, the general opinion of them throughout society, seemed to be pretty consistent, and I guess that does to a degree reflect the European way of acting & reacting. There are goodies & baddies, goodies do good things, baddies do bad things, and the old gods were a bit like elevated humans. But in Bali we have a different way of thinking about the gods & goddesses, no god or goddess is totally good or bad, and the way in which gods and goddesses are thought of can & does vary from one village to another. Like --- let's talk about Durga for a minute. I do not recall ever talking with a western person who had an interest in Balinese or Hindu-Buddhist matters who did not immediately ID Durga as the very embodiment of blood thirsty evil. OK, Durga was not always Uma or Parvati or Gauri, she was also Candika & Bhairavi & the Durga that non-Hindu Westerners usually think of. These names i have quoted are just a few of Durga's names. More than a few of my Hindu mates have Durga as a household deity. Durga can be both good and bad, and like most gods everywhere, can be in different places at the same time, & thus doing both good & evil at the same time. The ideal is that that good & evil should always be in balance, it is no more desirable for a period of time to reflect all good, as it is for it to reflect all bad. The real problems arise when things get out of balance. Consider this:if a period of time is given over totally to good, that automatically means that for the world to get back into balance there must be an equivalent period given over to evil. Imagine that, total evil everywhichway we turn, no escape. Not a good prospect, but if we have equal & balancing quotas of good & evil existing in the same period, life becomes bearable. And that concept of "bearable" is about as much as any of us can reasonably hope for. So, to get back to Bali & Durga, in village "A" Durga might be thought of as Candika, but a few kilometers up the road at village "B" she might be thought of as Parvati. Different names, different characters, but the same goddess, and if represented in art, she will look different. This is just one of the problems of identifying identifying characters in art --- totogan hilts for example. If we know exactly where the carving was from, who carved it, when it was carved, and for what purpose, then we have a fair to reasonable chance of identifying the character. If we do not --- good luck.

13th November 2022, 08:59 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Do not know much about Kris hilts or Indonesian wood carvings. But what if this is not a crude slapdash amateur thingie, but just a rough preliminary and unfinished handle? I suspect 8 that unsigned Rembrandt’s sketches would not sell even for a price of Big Mack.

13th November 2022, 09:51 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	It might well be Ariel, but as with many things associated with art/craft work in Jawa/Bali, we don't really know unless we are there watching while the thing is produced. Often we just guess.