Old keris New Warangan

jagabuwana · 20th October 2022, 12:49 AM

Very nice SidJ. I find it near impossible to find keris, let alone good keris in Aus, aside from one obvious source which I will not name (but I think we all know it) so as to not violate this forums rules around commercials. So more luck to you!

I've only ever found two keris - both old and from antique shops. One Javanese shabby condition keris found in Katoomba in 2018 and the other an old Bali blade dressed in one of the famous Bali tourist styles, found this year in Bowral. I'll always pop into any antique shop I pass for a quick scan just incase. My odds aren't great but it makes a find all the more satisfying.

A. G. Maisey · 20th October 2022, 07:46 AM

Sid, the tangguh system is really not all that difficult to come to terms with if we just regard it as a system of classification.

For relatively recent classifications, such as Surakarta, we can use it as an approximate guide to age, but the further back in time we go, the less we can think of it in terms of age.

I feel that for Sultan Agung forward it is probably a more or less reliable way to get a ballpark approximation of age, but back before this I tend to regard it as a system that is more likely to indicate place of origin, rather than time of origin.

I'm using words like "tend" & "feel", this is because what I have written is a statement of my personal belief, which is probably as good as anybody else's personal belief.

Bear in mind that tangguh is a value indicator that is tied to perceived honour, it was never intended to satisfy the curiosity of collectors, it was intended to help Javanese noblemen with their investment decisions.

However --- at the present time it is used by many people who do not really understand it, to jack up prices. Koripan almost always becomes Mataram Sultan Agung, Tuban Majapahit gets presented as Majapahit, & so on.

Just stick with it as a classification system and you won't go far wrong.

A. G. Maisey · 20th October 2022, 07:52 AM

Jaga, things used to be better in Australia. I was able to buy a lot of keris in just the Sydney & suburbs in the 1950's & 1960's, often at auction.

Even as late as 1990 I was able to buy a collection of 17 keris that included two superb pieces, and all the others were old & good.

Last year at auction I bought a pretty decent old Bali keris with silver, ivory, gemstones, and kinatah blade.

You just need to continually look & then be prepared to take out a second mortgage if the occasion calls for it.

jagabuwana · 25th October 2022, 08:09 AM

Yeah the auctions seem to be where it's at now, but I always find out about them after the fact. I should note which ones have sold keris in the near past and sign up to a mailing list or something.
But yes, second mortgage is right. In this economy it might just be an exercise in window shopping.

20th October 2022, 12:49 AM	#1
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 290	Very nice SidJ. I find it near impossible to find keris, let alone good keris in Aus, aside from one obvious source which I will not name (but I think we all know it) so as to not violate this forums rules around commercials. So more luck to you! I've only ever found two keris - both old and from antique shops. One Javanese shabby condition keris found in Katoomba in 2018 and the other an old Bali blade dressed in one of the famous Bali tourist styles, found this year in Bowral. I'll always pop into any antique shop I pass for a quick scan just incase. My odds aren't great but it makes a find all the more satisfying.

20th October 2022, 07:46 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Sid, the tangguh system is really not all that difficult to come to terms with if we just regard it as a system of classification. For relatively recent classifications, such as Surakarta, we can use it as an approximate guide to age, but the further back in time we go, the less we can think of it in terms of age. I feel that for Sultan Agung forward it is probably a more or less reliable way to get a ballpark approximation of age, but back before this I tend to regard it as a system that is more likely to indicate place of origin, rather than time of origin. I'm using words like "tend" & "feel", this is because what I have written is a statement of my personal belief, which is probably as good as anybody else's personal belief. Bear in mind that tangguh is a value indicator that is tied to perceived honour, it was never intended to satisfy the curiosity of collectors, it was intended to help Javanese noblemen with their investment decisions. However --- at the present time it is used by many people who do not really understand it, to jack up prices. Koripan almost always becomes Mataram Sultan Agung, Tuban Majapahit gets presented as Majapahit, & so on. Just stick with it as a classification system and you won't go far wrong.

20th October 2022, 07:52 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Jaga, things used to be better in Australia. I was able to buy a lot of keris in just the Sydney & suburbs in the 1950's & 1960's, often at auction. Even as late as 1990 I was able to buy a collection of 17 keris that included two superb pieces, and all the others were old & good. Last year at auction I bought a pretty decent old Bali keris with silver, ivory, gemstones, and kinatah blade. You just need to continually look & then be prepared to take out a second mortgage if the occasion calls for it.

25th October 2022, 08:09 AM	#4
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 290	Yeah the auctions seem to be where it's at now, but I always find out about them after the fact. I should note which ones have sold keris in the near past and sign up to a mailing list or something. But yes, second mortgage is right. In this economy it might just be an exercise in window shopping.