Misecorde, Stiletto, ?

[M ELEY]

Hello. It looks like you have a very distressed naval midshipman's dirk. Based on the smaller size, it would be classified as more of a dress piece versus the typically larger/plainer 'fighting' dirks. These were a symbol of one's rank among the more common seamen on the ship. It showed that you were a young officer (some as young as 10!) and could climb the ranks in the naval hierachy. Yours appears to be of the period ca 1800-20's. Still a nice historical piece...

[fernando]

Agreed .

[JoeCanada42]

awesome thanks for helping me figure out what it is, indeed it is great news
I am researching it and have seen a few similar examples, most times called British but at least once called American.

so what happened to the guard? was it damaged, did someone want it to be easier to conceal? if i had to guess the finials on the guard were cut off. hammered down into disks and used as trade currency.

[kronckew]

the 1796 pre-victorian standardization of swords bled over into naval Midshipmans dirks slowly, the current eagle pommel pattern is from the mid-19c.


This is an example from around 1810, as officers in training, they were private purchase and varied wildly. This one looks fairly close to the posted one, tho lacking a larger oval disk, at the whim of the maker and purchaser. The cross guard quillions are niot yet broken off. The 'edges' would likely NOT be sharpened as the narrow blade's edge geometry would not allow for a decent cut, even if technically as sharp as a razor. Design is purely for thrusting of course.

[M ELEY]

Very nice example, Wayne. The one you posted is of the fighting type, with a larger, stiletto-type blade and 'propeller' guard. I'd love to add one like this to my collection someday-

[Jim McDougall]

Interesting item, and I agree, this would be an outstanding addition to a naval grouping! I have a hard time figuring pragmatically what the reason for removing the quillon terminals. It does seem they must have been removed in accord as the length of both is similar. Possible one got broken and the other was also removed for symmetry?
I had not ever thought brass was so fragile these elements would be subject to breaking, however I have a briquet of brass whose quillon is also broken (unless purposely removed). Again, cannot fathom (good naval term) what reason.

Comments from P.G.W.Annis (1970)

[kronckew]

I suspect that the brass quillion may have bent under impact, which may have work-hardened it a bit & it broke when being straightened, possibly then they bent/broke the other to match. a break would show a jagged appearance, which i would have smoothed by sanding & polishing.


From "British Swords and Swordsmanship, pg. 55-59 Dirks, excerpts (my rewordingss):

Midshipmen were not the young boys of fiction. For example, on HMS London, in 1751, the youngest was 17 and the oldest 47. The 1856 pattern dirk was standardized and worn by midshipmen in the latter part of the Victorian period, it is in this period that they established the fiction of the young boys, and only they wore dirks. Before that, on father found that when outfitting his son as a midshipman, expecting to buy him a dirk, was told that midshipmen wore swords. Prior to that, dirks just showed officer status, and even admirals are painted wearing them, as they were more convenient aboard ship. Midshipmen (and warrant officers had black sharkskin sword grips, white was for lieutenants and above.



I am not sure if this was true in the USA. When I was a First class cadet (midshipman), in 1968, I was a cadet officer and carried a std. white grip US naval sword on parade. The non-officers carried 1903A3 Springfield rifles. The Pershing Rifles unit carried M1 Garands & drilled with sword bayonets. (I was also a PR as Ops officer & rarely competed, but had to be able to fill in, so I got qualified in fancy trick drill myself)