Knife for I.D. Chinese? Tibetan? Bhutanese?

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent info Wayne! Thank you. That makes sense, it seems in most ethnographic areas edged weapons prevail. Not sure what the source I was reading meant, but thats why I posted this, for feedback.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Excellent info Wayne! Thank you. That makes sense, it seems in most ethnographic areas edged weapons prevail. Not sure what the source I was reading meant, but thats why I posted this, for feedback.

yeah bhutan is a good example. they are still making them and if you look at bhutanese news p[apers you can see here and there examples of killings or fights, jelous lovers, angry neighbours ect.. with patags being mentioned.
goverment official were typically presented with a sword in bhutan and in the 1970s to cut costs as at the time many amny officials qualified for this .. they tried to import blades form india.. the chrome plated patags you see about soemtimes are apparently mostly indian made.
later that stopped.. now most blacksmiths there are indians and nepalis, bhutanese choosing not to work in this kid of work. nost of the bhutanese sword makers are quite old. but they apparently have soem training program to revitalise sword making.
in 2008 in tibet the tibetian swords were used to attack chinese and you can see footage of lhasa from that date with tibetians armed with swords running though the streets chopping at thier targets.
after the failed uprising many monks encouraged tibetians to destroy their weapons and there was rituial burnings of huge.. i say huge.. 10000 knives and swords all in a pile.. huge piles of arms. some of a very advanced age .. along with lepoard skins, sword belts.. antique firearms.. ect.. very sad.. they piled them up outside temples and burnt them. such a shame. . imagine seeing a silver sheathed sword with red coral dicoraiton and laminated blade burned up to a pile of metal and ash.. sad.

[Jim McDougall]

Ausjulius,
Again, thank you for elaborating with these important details concerning Bhutan and the circumstances involving these people and in neighboring areas as well as use of these swords. This is exactly what is needed in the study and the understanding of weapons beyond their type,form, category.
Every weapon has its story!
Now I know the story with this one

[kronckew]

The sword is apparently not unique, one very similar to the one in norman's post #1 was sold at auction not long ago ago in the UK.


The auction description, like most, was almost complete nonsense.
19TH CENTURY FAR EAST ASIAN SHORT SWORD,

possibly Japanese, with fullered steel blade over a quatrefoil guard, leather and foliate engraved steel grip, 38cm long, with original hardwood mounted scroll and Greek key engraved scabbard with suspension frog.

Postscript: Silly Monks, coulda sold all those sharp pointy weapons to us and lived high on the hog for a goodly while.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Wayne,
Not similar that is mine. I did ignore the auction blurb as with a lot of auction houses it is either fanciful, Spartan or wrong. As you possibly saw it didn’t cost much so I chanced my arm. Some you win some you lose.
My Regards,
Norman.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Wayne,
Not similar that is mine. I did ignore the auction blurb as with a lot of auction houses it is either fanciful, Spartan or wrong. As you possibly saw it didn’t cost much so I chanced my arm. Some you win some you lose.
My Regards,
Norman.

OOps! I didn't actually see that auction item, it was stumbled on from another source. I wanted to add another example. I found it on {deleted} where it just showed as auction 'closed' and no details were available. I also buy things via {deleted}.


Auction descriptions are often very fanciful and wrong. I just paid for an Indonesian European-style klewang )posted on the forum here) that had been listed as a middle eastern short sword (along with a Masai seme, they got that one right)!

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by kronckew

The sword is apparently not unique, one very similar to the one in norman's post #1 was sold at auction not long ago ago in the UK.


The auction description, like most, was almost complete nonsense.
19TH CENTURY FAR EAST ASIAN SHORT SWORD,

possibly Japanese, with fullered steel blade over a quatrefoil guard, leather and foliate engraved steel grip, 38cm long, with original hardwood mounted scroll and Greek key engraved scabbard with suspension frog.

Postscript: Silly Monks, coulda sold all those sharp pointy weapons to us and lived high on the hog for a goodly while.

yeah ive seen small knives, large knives and swords all with this handle and guard combinaiton, i just dont know the exact region and ethnic group that uses them. the veriety on these is amazing. id love to travel to these and see all these but i think tis just not a thing the chinese government will let you do.. even in the golden days.. late 1990s to early 2000snds it was hard or impossiable even with a minder to go to many of these parts. these days it would be so hard

[werecow]

EDIT: Oops, missed that reply by Norman. No matter, I consider my retrodiction preemptively vindicated. }|<o)

Original post:


I'm not entirely convinced they aren't literally the same sword/knife. }|:o.

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by werecow

EDIT: Oops, missed that reply by Norman. No matter, I consider my retrodiction preemptively vindicated. }|<o)

Original post:


I'm not entirely convinced they aren't literally the same sword/knife. }|.

Exactly, it is one and the same.
Regards,
Norman

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by kronckew

The sword is apparently not unique, one very similar to the one in norman's post #1 was sold at auction not long ago ago in the UK.


The auction description, like most, was almost complete nonsense.
19TH CENTURY FAR EAST ASIAN SHORT SWORD,

possibly Japanese, with fullered steel blade over a quatrefoil guard, leather and foliate engraved steel grip, 38cm long, with original hardwood mounted scroll and Greek key engraved scabbard with suspension frog.

Postscript: Silly Monks, coulda sold all those sharp pointy weapons to us and lived high on the hog for a goodly while.

Just to avoid the confusion that appears to be happening. The knife above that kronckew posted is the one I have.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ausjulius,
Again, thank you for elaborating with these important details concerning Bhutan and the circumstances involving these people and in neighboring areas as well as use of these swords. This is exactly what is needed in the study and the understanding of weapons beyond their type,form, category.
Every weapon has its story!
Now I know the story with this one

no worries.
have a look at this image.. https://tibetpolicy.net/discussing-r...nives-weapons/

as knife and sword collectors.. its a sad sad image..
you can find more of thes eimages with lepoard, bear and fox furs, guns, crossbows, swords knives ect being burnt.. some of those piles would be worth a million dollars.. gives you an image of just how common such arms are/were in tibet when compared with the rest of the modern world.
some place on youtube there is a festival attended by local tibetians in triaditional costume and some monks that shows traditional sword and sheild and dagger techniques. it was on youtube in tibetian language. was interesitng, it wasnt a danct but several showing cutting, defending and such techniques with sharp swords.. if i find it ill post it

https://savetibet.org/wp-content/upl...furs_image.jpg

https://savetibet.org/wp-content/upl...ang-Knives.jpg

http://www.ecns.cn/visual/hd/2015/09-02/75464.shtml