Plain Jane Yataghan Origin Requested

werecow · 16th July 2022, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobT

Kubur
I can't recall ever having seen a yataghan with a T-Rib before but maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention (they are usually so darn expensive that I only glance at them).

You see them from time to time. I posted another one here a while ago. On mine, the T-section runs up to the bolster.

ariel · 16th July 2022, 02:49 PM

I would remove Turkey from the list of potential sources of origin.
1.The so-called Auspicious Incident ( 1826) destroyed the Ottoman Janissary corpse and initiated persecution of the remaining ones. Thus, the demand for yataghans dwindled in Turkey proper. However, manufacture of bladed weapons of Ottoman style persisted unabated in the already independent Balkans even in the early 20th century.
2. The date on the blade is given as Gregorian, not Hijjra ( Athanase’s example).
3. Numerals are European, and the crossed 7 is also very European feature.
4. The “zigzag” decoration in various forms, locations and complexity are often seen on very simple “village-produced” Balkan weapons ( see Tariq Koze “Balkan Arms”).

These considerations shift the usage of yataghans from Anatolia to “Rumelia”, ie. the European, specifically Christian, part of the former Ottoman Empire, most likely the Balkans where the Ottoman-style weapons became in fact, truly indigenous over several centuries of Turkish rule.

gp · 16th July 2022, 08:03 PM

Enclosed a scabbard and small yataghan or long bichaq as I would prefer to call it, I bought in a lot from some one in Croatia some time ago.

Althought slightly different, the simplicity or "naivity" of the scabbard decoration looks quite similar to the above.

ariel · 16th July 2022, 10:45 PM

A good example of a “Zigzag” decoration vs. RobT’s one. Virtually identical.

Battara · 19th July 2022, 01:30 AM

I have looked at this and the decor - I'm leaning toward one of Ariel's choices of Syrian, though I'll also admit that this style of zigzag chasing is common (also as Ariel said).

RobT · 26th July 2022, 01:41 AM

GP,

I would be willing to bet that the culture that produced your long bichaq also made my yataghan. Although the design on your sheath differs from the one on mine in subject matter (whatever those subjects may be), the method of execution and, most importantly, the "feel" that both designs share, appear to me to be unmistakably of the same culture.

Sincerely,
RobT

gp · 5th August 2022, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobT

GP,

I would be willing to bet that the culture that produced your long bichaq also made my yataghan. Although the design on your sheath differs from the one on mine in subject matter (whatever those subjects may be), the method of execution and, most importantly, the "feel" that both designs share, appear to me to be unmistakably of the same culture.

Sincerely,
RobT

I agree and really think it is from the Balkans. In my 5 years of collecting only yours and mine surfaced. Mine was bought in Souther Dalmatia / Croatia but still one must not jump to early to conclussions. Fact is that as they are simple weapons, no discriptions will pop up in literature ...
Nevertheless you've got a very nice piece!

16th July 2022, 02:49 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I would remove Turkey from the list of potential sources of origin. 1.The so-called Auspicious Incident ( 1826) destroyed the Ottoman Janissary corpse and initiated persecution of the remaining ones. Thus, the demand for yataghans dwindled in Turkey proper. However, manufacture of bladed weapons of Ottoman style persisted unabated in the already independent Balkans even in the early 20th century. 2. The date on the blade is given as Gregorian, not Hijjra ( Athanase’s example). 3. Numerals are European, and the crossed 7 is also very European feature. 4. The “zigzag” decoration in various forms, locations and complexity are often seen on very simple “village-produced” Balkan weapons ( see Tariq Koze “Balkan Arms”). These considerations shift the usage of yataghans from Anatolia to “Rumelia”, ie. the European, specifically Christian, part of the former Ottoman Empire, most likely the Balkans where the Ottoman-style weapons became in fact, truly indigenous over several centuries of Turkish rule. Last edited by ariel; 16th July 2022 at 03:53 PM.

16th July 2022, 08:03 PM	#3
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 840	Enclosed a scabbard and small yataghan or long bichaq as I would prefer to call it, I bought in a lot from some one in Croatia some time ago. Althought slightly different, the simplicity or "naivity" of the scabbard decoration looks quite similar to the above. Attached Images

26th July 2022, 01:41 AM	#6
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 563	Thanks GP GP, I would be willing to bet that the culture that produced your long bichaq also made my yataghan. Although the design on your sheath differs from the one on mine in subject matter (whatever those subjects may be), the method of execution and, most importantly, the "feel" that both designs share, appear to me to be unmistakably of the same culture. Sincerely, RobT

16th July 2022, 10:45 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	A good example of a “Zigzag” decoration vs. RobT’s one. Virtually identical.

19th July 2022, 01:30 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	I have looked at this and the decor - I'm leaning toward one of Ariel's choices of Syrian, though I'll also admit that this style of zigzag chasing is common (also as Ariel said).