Wootz shamshir blade for identification

Drabant1701 · 24th June 2022, 12:27 PM

Looks like a very nice sword. The mounts on the scabbard looks to be top quality, they by them self would be colletible. The blade looks to be in good condition and mad of fine wootz. The grip and crossguard look plain for such a fancy scabbard, but maybe they where once fancy to.

ariel · 24th June 2022, 06:24 PM

Usually, scabbard mounts with suspension rings belong together with crossguards. Here, I think, the scabbard might be from another sword. Thus, the posted sword as such and the scabbard may have to be viewed separately.

The sword looks like a classical Persian shamshir ~18 to early 19 century judging by wootz pattern. I see nothing that would hint at Afghani or Indian origin.Can’t see whether the grip is ivory or bone, but that would not help anyway: even the museum grade shamshirs had a whole gamut of grip materiels. Walrus was the richest one, but any other materiel does not indicate that the grip plates were replaced or the wealth of the owner: just his taste and preference.

The same for the scabbard. Embossed leather and gold koftgari on the mounts also are quite typical for Persian work ( again: not an ensemble with the sword itself!). Its a pity the chape is lost: it might have provided additional and important clues.

It might be important to see the sword drawn into the scabbard: the blade seems to look too long for the scabbard and the compatibility of curvatures needs to be verified.

Also, any mechanical defects ( broken off quillon, nicks on the edge, lost chape, broken off scabbard tip etc) cannot serve as evidences of battlefied damage: far too often they are the results of poor storage and misuse. Lost locket and segments of lost leather covering are always suspicious for that.

Overall, this is a very nice shamshir, but the scabbard, IMHO, is suspect.

24th June 2022, 12:27 PM	#1
Drabant1701 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 181	Looks like a very nice sword. The mounts on the scabbard looks to be top quality, they by them self would be colletible. The blade looks to be in good condition and mad of fine wootz. The grip and crossguard look plain for such a fancy scabbard, but maybe they where once fancy to.

24th June 2022, 06:24 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Usually, scabbard mounts with suspension rings belong together with crossguards. Here, I think, the scabbard might be from another sword. Thus, the posted sword as such and the scabbard may have to be viewed separately. The sword looks like a classical Persian shamshir ~18 to early 19 century judging by wootz pattern. I see nothing that would hint at Afghani or Indian origin.Can’t see whether the grip is ivory or bone, but that would not help anyway: even the museum grade shamshirs had a whole gamut of grip materiels. Walrus was the richest one, but any other materiel does not indicate that the grip plates were replaced or the wealth of the owner: just his taste and preference. The same for the scabbard. Embossed leather and gold koftgari on the mounts also are quite typical for Persian work ( again: not an ensemble with the sword itself!). Its a pity the chape is lost: it might have provided additional and important clues. It might be important to see the sword drawn into the scabbard: the blade seems to look too long for the scabbard and the compatibility of curvatures needs to be verified. Also, any mechanical defects ( broken off quillon, nicks on the edge, lost chape, broken off scabbard tip etc) cannot serve as evidences of battlefied damage: far too often they are the results of poor storage and misuse. Lost locket and segments of lost leather covering are always suspicious for that. Overall, this is a very nice shamshir, but the scabbard, IMHO, is suspect.