Missing "gems"

Jean · 24th April 2022, 10:15 AM

Hello Alan,
The specimen on the far right of the top row is in tumenggunan (regent) style IMO because it has 2 flat and parallel faces on the top part.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 24th April 2022, 10:36 AM

Yes, it could be Jean, and if you look carefully you might find a few more that could be classified as something else.

I like to use the Aswin Wirjadi collection as a reference when possible, but I did not have time to do that. I've got around 100 or so Madura hilts, they're kept in a drawer --- apart from the ones on keris & a dozen or so on a display stand --- so I just sorted through the drawer and pulled out the ones that I thought might qualify, I was using overall form & epaulets or their substitution as the classifiers.

It was just a very quick pick & foto.

Paul B. · 25th April 2022, 07:33 PM

@ David: the base of your KM handle is for a great part gone/worn ?

David · 26th April 2022, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul B.

@ David: the base of your KM handle is for a great part gone/worn ?

I've never really thought about it before, but i do understand your question. It's fairly old ivory, so i suppose it is possible that there was damage and it was "repaired" by removal of the base. But when i have seen this before some other material is usually used as a replacement for the worn out part.
This is a rather small example of this style of hilt and is on a patrem. So it his possible it was always this way or perhaps shortened to proportionally fit the the blade better. But if you look in Detelf's examples in post #8, the one in the middle also doesn't have the normal base to the hilt.
Alan, do you know anything more about this one?

GIO · 26th April 2022, 06:09 PM

Detelf's examples in post #8, the second one from the right also

David you probably refer to the THIRD one from the right. (the photo normally does not show entirely all the hilts)

David · 26th April 2022, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

Detelf's examples in post #8, the second one from the right also

David you probably refer to the THIRD one from the right. (the photo normally does not show entirely all the hilts)

Yes, sorry, i did mean THIRD from the right. I will correct my post. Thanks!

A. G. Maisey · 26th April 2022, 11:37 PM

David, I've posted a pic 20 odd hilts.

Some have the full bulbous base (bungkul), some do not, these "do not" ones have that base similar to yours.

I don't know why, but my feeling is that it is stylistic variation, possibly dictated by available material, possibly because of a need to match proportion to a wrongko.

Or it could be because of damage to the base, but I don't think so. There are too many of these truncated base hilts floating around.

Yes, a lot of the truncated base ones have a fairly indistinct bungkul & it has been carved, also I have a few smaller ones that are on keris that do not have the bungkul.

I lean to stylistic variation.

24th April 2022, 10:15 AM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Alan, The specimen on the far right of the top row is in tumenggunan (regent) style IMO because it has 2 flat and parallel faces on the top part. Regards

24th April 2022, 10:36 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Yes, it could be Jean, and if you look carefully you might find a few more that could be classified as something else. I like to use the Aswin Wirjadi collection as a reference when possible, but I did not have time to do that. I've got around 100 or so Madura hilts, they're kept in a drawer --- apart from the ones on keris & a dozen or so on a display stand --- so I just sorted through the drawer and pulled out the ones that I thought might qualify, I was using overall form & epaulets or their substitution as the classifiers. It was just a very quick pick & foto.

25th April 2022, 07:33 PM	#3
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	@ David: the base of your KM handle is for a great part gone/worn ?

26th April 2022, 06:09 PM	#5
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 331	Detelf's examples in post #8, the second one from the right also David you probably refer to the THIRD one from the right. (the photo normally does not show entirely all the hilts)

26th April 2022, 11:37 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	David, I've posted a pic 20 odd hilts. Some have the full bulbous base (bungkul), some do not, these "do not" ones have that base similar to yours. I don't know why, but my feeling is that it is stylistic variation, possibly dictated by available material, possibly because of a need to match proportion to a wrongko. Or it could be because of damage to the base, but I don't think so. There are too many of these truncated base hilts floating around. Yes, a lot of the truncated base ones have a fairly indistinct bungkul & it has been carved, also I have a few smaller ones that are on keris that do not have the bungkul. I lean to stylistic variation.