Looking for References for 16th to 17th century European swords

Cathey · 23rd April 2022, 06:25 AM

Hi Guys

I am particularly looking for research information on a specific form of early Military sabre that features a dog or lion head pommel. I think they are usually described as Swiss or German Circa 1640. I have attached a picture of a sword from this family that I am referring to. Any assistance with reference material will be greatly appreciated.

I have just made my third attempt to order a copy of “Europaische Hieb - Und Stichwaffen Aus Der Sammlung Des Museums Fur Deutsche Geschichte by Muller, Heinrich & Kolling, Hartmut” from America, hopefully this one will go through. Every time I order books via Abe books, they send me an email asking to increase the shipping, usually by over 100%.

Cheers Cathey

Hotspur · 23rd April 2022, 06:50 AM

Wouldn't that be a Swiss bear vs dog?

Hotspur · 23rd April 2022, 07:06 AM

HERMANN HISTORICA

'An Swiss officer's sabre, 2nd half of the 17th century Curved blade with a double-edged point and narrow fullers on both sides. Iron bar hilt with thumb ring, the obverse side with inset, elaborately chiselled brass guard plate showing a monster's head. Grip with elaborate brass wire winding and braided ferrules. Pommel in shape of a dog's head with punched and engraved decoration. Small piece at the right side of the snout missing. Pommel with remnants of fire-gilding. Length 91, 5 cm., historic, historical, 17th century, sword, swords, weapons, arms, weapon, arm, fighting device, military, militaria, object, objects, stills, clipping, clippings, cut out, cut-out, cut-outs, melee weapon, melee weapons, metal'

Swiss favored bears. The dog pommel hangers of England are somewhat different.

An couple of older auctions listing them as lions. Still, Swiss liked bears.
https://www.auction.fr/_en/lot/a-lio...swiss-10027809
https://www.ratisbons.com/auctions-a...h-century.html
Cheers
GC

Cathey · 23rd April 2022, 07:49 AM

thanks for that, I thought they were pretty ordinary looking lions, if they are meant to be bears that makes more sense.

Cheers Cathey

Victrix · 23rd April 2022, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathey

I have just made my third attempt to order a copy of “Europaische Hieb - Und Stichwaffen Aus Der Sammlung Des Museums Fur Deutsche Geschichte by Muller, Heinrich & Kolling, Hartmut” from America, hopefully this one will go through. Every time I order books via Abe books, they send me an email asking to increase the shipping, usually by over 100%.

Hi Cathey, I just received my copy of this book yesterday. I ordered it from ZVAB in Germany and it cost me EUR24 (of which EUR6 transport to Sweden). Might be worth trying at least although transport to Australia should be higher.

werecow · 23rd April 2022, 07:55 PM

I'm new to this topic myself and The Rapier and The Smallsword is extremely helpful.

I've also found the little book "European Sword Pommels" by R. Forrer helpful in figuring out what I was looking at from time to time. It's basically just tons of pictures of pommels with a description and date estimates. It also has some maker's marks in the back.

23rd April 2022, 06:25 AM	#1
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Swis-Campaign Sword-c1660 Hi Guys I am particularly looking for research information on a specific form of early Military sabre that features a dog or lion head pommel. I think they are usually described as Swiss or German Circa 1640. I have attached a picture of a sword from this family that I am referring to. Any assistance with reference material will be greatly appreciated. I have just made my third attempt to order a copy of “Europaische Hieb - Und Stichwaffen Aus Der Sammlung Des Museums Fur Deutsche Geschichte by Muller, Heinrich & Kolling, Hartmut” from America, hopefully this one will go through. Every time I order books via Abe books, they send me an email asking to increase the shipping, usually by over 100%. Cheers Cathey Attached Images

23rd April 2022, 07:06 AM	#3
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 514	HERMANN HISTORICA 'An Swiss officer's sabre, 2nd half of the 17th century Curved blade with a double-edged point and narrow fullers on both sides. Iron bar hilt with thumb ring, the obverse side with inset, elaborately chiselled brass guard plate showing a monster's head. Grip with elaborate brass wire winding and braided ferrules. Pommel in shape of a dog's head with punched and engraved decoration. Small piece at the right side of the snout missing. Pommel with remnants of fire-gilding. Length 91, 5 cm., historic, historical, 17th century, sword, swords, weapons, arms, weapon, arm, fighting device, military, militaria, object, objects, stills, clipping, clippings, cut out, cut-out, cut-outs, melee weapon, melee weapons, metal' Swiss favored bears. The dog pommel hangers of England are somewhat different. An couple of older auctions listing them as lions. Still, Swiss liked bears. https://www.auction.fr/_en/lot/a-lio...swiss-10027809 https://www.ratisbons.com/auctions-a...h-century.html Cheers GC Attached Images Last edited by Hotspur; 23rd April 2022 at 07:18 AM.

23rd April 2022, 07:49 AM	#4
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Bears make sense thanks for that, I thought they were pretty ordinary looking lions, if they are meant to be bears that makes more sense. Cheers Cathey

23rd April 2022, 06:50 AM	#2
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 514	Wouldn't that be a Swiss bear vs dog?

23rd April 2022, 07:55 PM	#6
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 569	I'm new to this topic myself and The Rapier and The Smallsword is extremely helpful. I've also found the little book "European Sword Pommels" by R. Forrer helpful in figuring out what I was looking at from time to time. It's basically just tons of pictures of pommels with a description and date estimates. It also has some maker's marks in the back.