early 1700s English swords

fernando · 19th April 2022, 06:12 PM

Have i not seen this chart before ?

.
Not so easy to figure out what the 'CUTT' term is, most probably old English, even lexicon, that i can not relate to Portuguese terminology. But judging by the specs and the period in question, these would be blades for cup hilted swords. Those were what abounded by then; you can see everyone holding one, even portraid Kings, during the war of restoration 1640-1668 ... and long after. The 48" length is o.k. for these swords ... and within the law. Assuming these lengths in the chart are for the blades including the tang, this corresponds to 'little' over the full (1539 law) sword length, which was 5 palms (spans)... although we know these were 'regularly' exceeded. Concerning the width, 7/8" to 1", this seems to be that of non military cup hilts. As for the 'HOLLOWS', we certainly assume this means fullers. Over here we call them gutters (goteiras), following the famous jazz talk:

The names «bleeder» and «gutter» are alluding to a supposed effect, attributed to this type of notch on the blades of white weapons, of promoting the bleeding of the victim stabbed by the weapon, by offering a channel through which the blood could circulate to outside the body, while the blade was lodged inside the victim. In theory, they could also be used to combat a putative suction or suction effect that could be provided by sticking the blade too deep, which would make it difficult to remove the weapon from the victim's body.
However, such effects have never been scientifically confirmed, and the medieval accounts that mention them are currently believed to be mainly apocryphal.

fernando · 19th April 2022, 06:57 PM

But if we look at blades #30 and #31 in the chart, the refference to the second one only appears to raise the price, for cutting through a blade identical to that in #30. Could in this case the term CUTT mean blade piercing ? And the double TT only due to the chart writer poor spelling ... as seen in other terms in the said chart ...

urbanspaceman · 19th April 2022, 07:26 PM

Hi Fernando. It may well be a spelling error.
Is this what they mean by three hollows perhaps (see attached, found online):
What is a cut through blade? I'm not certain I am aware of this.

fernando · 19th April 2022, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

... Hi Fernando. It may well be a spelling error. Is this what they mean by three hollows perhaps (see attached, found online):...

Yes Keith, that's what i (i) figure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

What is a cut through blade? I'm not certain I am aware of this.

A pierced blade ... i (i)would say ...

.

19th April 2022, 06:12 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Just speculating ... that's all. Have i not seen this chart before ? . Not so easy to figure out what the 'CUTT' term is, most probably old English, even lexicon, that i can not relate to Portuguese terminology. But judging by the specs and the period in question, these would be blades for cup hilted swords. Those were what abounded by then; you can see everyone holding one, even portraid Kings, during the war of restoration 1640-1668 ... and long after. The 48" length is o.k. for these swords ... and within the law. Assuming these lengths in the chart are for the blades including the tang, this corresponds to 'little' over the full (1539 law) sword length, which was 5 palms (spans)... although we know these were 'regularly' exceeded. Concerning the width, 7/8" to 1", this seems to be that of non military cup hilts. As for the 'HOLLOWS', we certainly assume this means fullers. Over here we call them gutters (goteiras), following the famous jazz talk: The names «bleeder» and «gutter» are alluding to a supposed effect, attributed to this type of notch on the blades of white weapons, of promoting the bleeding of the victim stabbed by the weapon, by offering a channel through which the blood could circulate to outside the body, while the blade was lodged inside the victim. In theory, they could also be used to combat a putative suction or suction effect that could be provided by sticking the blade too deep, which would make it difficult to remove the weapon from the victim's body. However, such effects have never been scientifically confirmed, and the medieval accounts that mention them are currently believed to be mainly apocryphal. Last edited by fernando; 19th April 2022 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Correction

19th April 2022, 06:57 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Further speculation ... But if we look at blades #30 and #31 in the chart, the refference to the second one only appears to raise the price, for cutting through a blade identical to that in #30. Could in this case the term CUTT mean blade piercing ? And the double TT only due to the chart writer poor spelling ... as seen in other terms in the said chart ...

19th April 2022, 07:26 PM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 715	cut and thrust Hi Fernando. It may well be a spelling error. Is this what they mean by three hollows perhaps (see attached, found online): What is a cut through blade? I'm not certain I am aware of this. Attached Images