Chinese, Tibetan, Indian or African Sword?

Peter Andeweg · 28th December 2021, 04:01 PM

Interesting piece!

I would lean toward a 'refurbished' Chinese Jian in a Banjarmasin/Kalimantan dress. The Chinese were represented in large numbers due to trade in Southern Borneo. The bright red colour is often seen on edged weapons from this region and the typical knot is also largely associated with this region, however it is mostly seen in rattan.

I would date it in the 19th century.

Regards, Peter

drac2k · 28th December 2021, 08:57 PM

Thanks, Peter that would certainly be great news. Just to throw a wrench into the works, the knot on the scabbard reminds me of one on a Dyak Mandau sheath; it still could have the Chinese connection as the Dyaks had a great deal of contact with the Chinese, either by trading or piracy.

ariel · 4th January 2022, 01:29 AM

Yes, the blade almost certainly is a shortened Jian . But the handle does look Indian. I would guess that overall it is a composite Sino-Indian Gupti.

josh stout · 5th January 2022, 06:13 PM

I agree it is probably a jian blade. I also think it may be in its original dress, as it was put together in China. The knot may be influenced by a minority group, but the overall form is that of a "stick jian" or perhaps also called a "gun jian".

The tip has been modified.

I have one that is similar, and it is definitely all Chinese. From the overall work, I would say these are village manufacture, and likely to have a lot of variation within the form. I think it is a somewhat rare type, so there are not too many examples with which to compare it.

I will see if I can dig up a photo of mine.

josh stout · 5th January 2022, 07:35 PM

I found a few old photos of my stick jian. It is likely Republican era, and definitely a fighting piece. The blade shows good lamination and a slightly triangular tip. The tip on the example that started the thread may have been an attempt to recreate a triangle point that had become rounded with sharpening.

My example is 100% Chinese, and I think it is close enough to the posted one. I see no reaason to think the posted one is anything other than a Chinese stick jian with perhaps some minority influence.

ariel · 5th January 2022, 10:28 PM

Good examples.
Indian Gupti takes the silver, but the gold goes to China.
Nice start of Winter Olympics:-)

drac2k · 6th January 2022, 01:41 PM

Josh, you put to rest the origins of the sword. I'm surprised that I haven't run into one of these "stick swords," before. Were these used rurally or were they a poor man's Jian, perhaps used by gangs or laborers? Is there a specific region in China where they were prevalent?

28th December 2021, 08:57 PM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,258	Thanks, Peter that would certainly be great news. Just to throw a wrench into the works, the knot on the scabbard reminds me of one on a Dyak Mandau sheath; it still could have the Chinese connection as the Dyaks had a great deal of contact with the Chinese, either by trading or piracy. Last edited by drac2k; 28th December 2021 at 09:12 PM. Reason: to add information

5th January 2022, 07:35 PM	#5
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	I found a few old photos of my stick jian. It is likely Republican era, and definitely a fighting piece. The blade shows good lamination and a slightly triangular tip. The tip on the example that started the thread may have been an attempt to recreate a triangle point that had become rounded with sharpening. My example is 100% Chinese, and I think it is close enough to the posted one. I see no reaason to think the posted one is anything other than a Chinese stick jian with perhaps some minority influence. Attached Images

28th December 2021, 04:01 PM	#1
Peter Andeweg Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Vlissingen, Netherlands Posts: 71	Interesting piece! I would lean toward a 'refurbished' Chinese Jian in a Banjarmasin/Kalimantan dress. The Chinese were represented in large numbers due to trade in Southern Borneo. The bright red colour is often seen on edged weapons from this region and the typical knot is also largely associated with this region, however it is mostly seen in rattan. I would date it in the 19th century. Regards, Peter

4th January 2022, 01:29 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yes, the blade almost certainly is a shortened Jian . But the handle does look Indian. I would guess that overall it is a composite Sino-Indian Gupti.

5th January 2022, 06:13 PM	#4
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	I agree it is probably a jian blade. I also think it may be in its original dress, as it was put together in China. The knot may be influenced by a minority group, but the overall form is that of a "stick jian" or perhaps also called a "gun jian". The tip has been modified. I have one that is similar, and it is definitely all Chinese. From the overall work, I would say these are village manufacture, and likely to have a lot of variation within the form. I think it is a somewhat rare type, so there are not too many examples with which to compare it. I will see if I can dig up a photo of mine.

5th January 2022, 10:28 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Good examples. Indian Gupti takes the silver, but the gold goes to China. Nice start of Winter Olympics:-)

6th January 2022, 01:41 PM	#7
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,258	Josh, you put to rest the origins of the sword. I'm surprised that I haven't run into one of these "stick swords," before. Were these used rurally or were they a poor man's Jian, perhaps used by gangs or laborers? Is there a specific region in China where they were prevalent?