Sudanese shamshir? anomaly

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks Ed, we crossed posts. No it is definitely not sheet, and there is some sort of activity in the steel. I will try to get pics, but as I note, when it was examined some years ago it was noted as some form of Turkish pattern.

Thank you for the info on the heptagram. This type of star has also been seen on the hilts of some Murid shashkas from Daghestan and Chechnya.

[Edster]

Jim,

I looked at the Summary of Historical Notes portion of my Kaskara Crossguards paper and found a couple of saber use notes.
1. 1700-1702 Father Krump observed sabers used by Funj horse & camel cavalry.
2. In a version of the Notes I found El Tounsy's "Voyage to Wadai" (1851) an observation that only the Sultan can use a scimitar and that sabres were imported from Fezzan (now Libya), but soldiers used swords. He also notes the leaf shaped scabbard of the Mandinka were used there. This full text didn't get into the final essay version.

It seems that complete swords and saber were imported in the early 1700s and sabers were only used by the elite. By 1800 sword blades were being imported from Germany and over time replaces the saber even among the elite. Sabers still in use in Wadai area as imports came from Libya rather than Cairo for the Nile Valley.

This may suggest that your saber originated in Wadai/Darfur area.

Best,
Ed

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Edster

Jim,

I looked at the Summary of Historical Notes portion of my Kaskara Crossguards paper and found a couple of saber use notes.
1. 1700-1702 Father Krump observed sabers used by Funj horse & camel cavalry.
2. In a version of the Notes I found El Tounsy's "Voyage to Wadai" (1851) an observation that only the Sultan can use a scimitar and that sabres were imported from Fezzan (now Libya), but soldiers used swords. He also notes the leaf shaped scabbard of the Mandinka were used there. This full text didn't get into the final essay version.

It seems that complete swords and saber were imported in the early 1700s and sabers were only used by the elite. By 1800 sword blades were being imported from Germany and over time replaces the saber even among the elite. Sabers still in use in Wadai area as imports came from Libya rather than Cairo for the Nile Valley.

This may suggest that your saber originated in Wadai/Darfur area.

Best,
Ed

That is amazing Ed!! thank you so much. I would not have imagined that well heeled status and thought this might be some ceremonial one off. It does make sense coming from Libya with the Ottoman type steel in the blade.

[Edster]

El Tounsy's trip was 1803-1810, but wasn't translated into English until 1845 and published in two parts in 1851 & 1854. That could place your sword earlier in the Fezzan trade market.

[TVV]

Here is a shamshir from Gavin Nugent's sold items, which based on the python(?) skin cover on the scabbard appears to have been used in an African, most likely Sudanese context at some point. Persian arms were imported and imitated in Sudan, but as discussed German imported blades were preferred, probably because of the ratio of cost to quality.

[Richard G]

This is purely speculation, but could it simply be an Ottoman (Egyptian or Hejaz) shamshir that has found its way south and has been 'sudanised' to local taste.
I would really like to know what is under that bulbous brass encased hilt. Is there any way of finding out?
It could be a pleasant surprise.
Regards
Richard

[CharlesS]

Great piece Jim!

Here are some curved examples I had posted some time ago, but yours is more along the lines of a much more Ottoman-influenced sword.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...curved+kaskara