Singhalese kastane.. Or... is it?

VANDOO · 7th June 2006, 12:59 AM

YEP GAVE IT MY BEST SHOT WHICH WAS MORE THAN SHOWN AS I STILL DIDN'T MEET RESERVE. I SUSPECT IT IS FROM CEYLON/ SIRI LANKA WITH DUTCH INFLUENCE BUT JUDGEING FROM THE BLADE NOT DUTCH MADE. IF THE HANDLE IS JADE IT IS A RATHER STRANGE LOOKING TYPE I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF JADE WAS AVAILABLE OR USED IN CEYLON

AT ANY RATE I LIKED IT AND IF IT WAS PUT TOGETHER FROM DIFERENT PARTS IT WAS WELL ENOUGH DONE AND NOT A RECENT CONSTRUCTION. I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING QUITE LIKE IT UP TILL NOW AND WOULD HAVE BEEN THRILLED TO HAVE LANDED IT FOR THE PRICE SHOWN ON EBAY. BUT ALAS IT WAS NOT TO BE

not2sharp · 7th June 2006, 02:31 AM

It looks like a composite piece. Perhaps all the more interesting since it crosses cultural lines.

n2s

Andrew · 7th June 2006, 03:14 AM

Come on, Ariel. Tell them...

Jim McDougall · 7th June 2006, 06:18 AM

This interesting piece, although it has certain loose similiarity to the kastane, or some interpretation of it, appears to me a European hunting hanger. The odd greenish grip may be stained horn. It seems that greened coloration was something that was popular on various hangers and weapons of the gentry during the 18th century, but need to search more for verification of that.

In "Swords, Daggers and Cutlasses" (G. Weland, 1991, p.45) the author illustrates a German hunting sabre dated 1658, with virtually the same type guard wuth upswept knuckleguard, and short downturned quillon. The hilt grip shape is also similar, flaring out more at the pommel, and typical of both English and Continental hangers of the period. The author becomes even more specific, noting that this hilt form is of the 'old Franconian style'. While it is unclear exactly how that term is intended, the region known as Franconia was a medieval duchy in Germany situated in the valley of the Main River.
I found another example of one of these hunting swords, same hilt quillon arrangement in "Hunting Weapons" (Howard Blackmore, 1971, fig. 12) shown as German, dated 1654.
The zoomorphic guard seems to represent probably griffins. The rather crude floral motif on the blade seems unusually rough, and the linear curved or semi circle motif seems possibly a stylized perception of the familiar Genoese/Styrian sickle marks.
Curious about the drilled hole near the base of the blade, and what that might be for.
Most interesting piece and though reminiscent of these 17th century examples, is more likely 18th century . More research in other resources may reveal other similar hilts with these smooth and simple grips. I really have never seen any of these using jade, but of course they may be out there!!

Best regards,
Jim

ingelred · 7th June 2006, 10:23 AM

I don't think that this is a German hunting sword.
At first I have never seen this kind of blade decoration on an German blade.
Second, hunting swords were made for noble people in Germany.
I don't think that anyone of these had accepted a forging flaw as can be seen on the depicted blade.
Moreover the guard, the quillon decoration and the silver and brass/gold? work do look Singhalese to me.

Just my two cents.

Greetings, Helge

not2sharp · 7th June 2006, 12:06 PM

This example looks to have been cobbled together from three separate parts:
1) The blade remind me of some post war tourist machetes that used to turn up in the 70s wearing crudely carved round wooden scabbards and handles. IIRC The whole looked a bit like a dha.
2) The guard looks like it was salvaged off a real Kastane
3) The handle looks like it may have once been part of a carving knife set.

n2s

ariel · 7th June 2006, 01:47 PM

OK, I think it is Thai. And, since it is a saber-like, it should be called Krabi (or Kassi, per Egerton

)
The blade is of typical "Dha" form with , again, typical semicircular incisions.
The handle looks very similar to the one from Leeds Armoury. I photographed it through the glass....
I thought it would be an unusual example.

7th June 2006, 12:06 PM	#6
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	This example looks to have been cobbled together from three separate parts: 1) The blade remind me of some post war tourist machetes that used to turn up in the 70s wearing crudely carved round wooden scabbards and handles. IIRC The whole looked a bit like a dha. 2) The guard looks like it was salvaged off a real Kastane 3) The handle looks like it may have once been part of a carving knife set. n2s Last edited by not2sharp; 7th June 2006 at 12:18 PM.

7th June 2006, 01:47 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	OK, I think it is Thai. And, since it is a saber-like, it should be called Krabi (or Kassi, per Egerton ) The blade is of typical "Dha" form with , again, typical semicircular incisions. The handle looks very similar to the one from Leeds Armoury. I photographed it through the glass.... I thought it would be an unusual example. Attached Images

7th June 2006, 12:59 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	YEP GAVE IT MY BEST SHOT WHICH WAS MORE THAN SHOWN AS I STILL DIDN'T MEET RESERVE. I SUSPECT IT IS FROM CEYLON/ SIRI LANKA WITH DUTCH INFLUENCE BUT JUDGEING FROM THE BLADE NOT DUTCH MADE. IF THE HANDLE IS JADE IT IS A RATHER STRANGE LOOKING TYPE I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF JADE WAS AVAILABLE OR USED IN CEYLON AT ANY RATE I LIKED IT AND IF IT WAS PUT TOGETHER FROM DIFERENT PARTS IT WAS WELL ENOUGH DONE AND NOT A RECENT CONSTRUCTION. I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING QUITE LIKE IT UP TILL NOW AND WOULD HAVE BEEN THRILLED TO HAVE LANDED IT FOR THE PRICE SHOWN ON EBAY. BUT ALAS IT WAS NOT TO BE

7th June 2006, 02:31 AM	#2
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	It looks like a composite piece. Perhaps all the more interesting since it crosses cultural lines. n2s

7th June 2006, 03:14 AM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Come on, Ariel. Tell them...

7th June 2006, 06:18 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	This interesting piece, although it has certain loose similiarity to the kastane, or some interpretation of it, appears to me a European hunting hanger. The odd greenish grip may be stained horn. It seems that greened coloration was something that was popular on various hangers and weapons of the gentry during the 18th century, but need to search more for verification of that. In "Swords, Daggers and Cutlasses" (G. Weland, 1991, p.45) the author illustrates a German hunting sabre dated 1658, with virtually the same type guard wuth upswept knuckleguard, and short downturned quillon. The hilt grip shape is also similar, flaring out more at the pommel, and typical of both English and Continental hangers of the period. The author becomes even more specific, noting that this hilt form is of the 'old Franconian style'. While it is unclear exactly how that term is intended, the region known as Franconia was a medieval duchy in Germany situated in the valley of the Main River. I found another example of one of these hunting swords, same hilt quillon arrangement in "Hunting Weapons" (Howard Blackmore, 1971, fig. 12) shown as German, dated 1654. The zoomorphic guard seems to represent probably griffins. The rather crude floral motif on the blade seems unusually rough, and the linear curved or semi circle motif seems possibly a stylized perception of the familiar Genoese/Styrian sickle marks. Curious about the drilled hole near the base of the blade, and what that might be for. Most interesting piece and though reminiscent of these 17th century examples, is more likely 18th century . More research in other resources may reveal other similar hilts with these smooth and simple grips. I really have never seen any of these using jade, but of course they may be out there!! Best regards, Jim

7th June 2006, 10:23 AM	#5
ingelred Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Moenchengladbach, Germany Posts: 62	I don't think that this is a German hunting sword. At first I have never seen this kind of blade decoration on an German blade. Second, hunting swords were made for noble people in Germany. I don't think that anyone of these had accepted a forging flaw as can be seen on the depicted blade. Moreover the guard, the quillon decoration and the silver and brass/gold? work do look Singhalese to me. Just my two cents. Greetings, Helge