Austrian hussar sabre for ID

[ausjulius]

from my understanding these notches or "claws" are indeed primarilily intended to assist in collecting items from the ground, cloaks, coats, banners.. haversacks ect..

and then seocndary by some that it will produce a worse wound or a greater chance of a deep wound by an accidential swipe with the back of the blade. (for example you thrust overhand but miss and the person passes to the back of your sword sliding against the back edge and spine. some of these weapons have little back edge and would cause little or no harm..

and thirdly to make a bigger wound when withdrawn in a thrust.. (some notched swords look to be styles that can hardly thrust and some notches are not very sharp at all)

i think they serve all three functions and in soem cases one or two of the three.

but i suspect picking items from the ground is the main function,

these also i imagine were ground off swords by armourers and so we see it less often.

pickign items up with you sword is not an unushal activity and you can see footage fo cossacks doing it too.. a lil rough seciton would make it much easier.. poeple could and maybe did carry a stick or a hook as well but.... your a skilled horseman.. dashing and brave not a guy with a stick with a hook in it rummaging for loot...

the mongols, kalmyks ect had hooks and spikes on their spears for this function, as well as pulling tents down and dehorsing poeple for capture..
id imsgine thier loot sacks were filled with shiny things and gooddies with these hooks, id much rather a hook on a spear. but if you have a sword a nice little gooddie hook would be handy,


i think the hooks at the back of the blade as a weapon seems misguided, almost like a meme.. one person said its good so all did it. which is pretty common in military realms.
as remember there is much better things for this.. the yelman on the original mongol and turkic swords is exactly that, a broad blade to alow a deep destructive wound on the thrust an advantagis unintentional cut with the back of the blade in an overhand thrust, later it becomes decorative in more curved blades.
one would have been wiser to order a blade like that. but as they were limited to these issued blades with blades that didnt have these properties they modified them with barbs to cause some harm, if you were stuck with it it would indeed make a bit of tearing on the way out.

as to the blade catching, its not likely.. it will just pull free as if nothing happened. the notches are small and would just tear the target, would woundnt notice any difference.

[Jim McDougall]

Ausjulius, you have put some deep thought into this and I appreciate your perspectives. However, I began studying this curious phenomenon back in the 90s, and reached the museums holding the swords Wagner (1967) depicted in his drawings. I wanted to confirm that these notches did exist in the actual sword blades, which they did.

In my communications with all of the officials contacted, none had any adequate idea on the notches, in fact seemed surprised there was any attention to the feature in the first place.
The only responses did somewhat echo Wagner's surmising these were to worsen wounds etc.

In various conversations with masters of arms in various regions, none of course had any thoughts on the case which was outside the bounds of regular fencing.

The only cases I found, as I have mentioned in my previous posts, these ONLY occurred on numerous example of Austrian swords, and this was by no means a usual or common practice of notching. The only exception I found was the suggestion of a couple of French hussar sabers having this. It should be noted that French hussars often closely followed Hungarian/Austrian in the 18th c.

So if these notches were such a prescribed practice for utility, worsening wounds or such pragmatic purposes.......why not on ANY other swords of ANY other countries?

Hooks, barbs etc. may be common on axes, polearms but NOT the kind of thing you would see on a standard combat side arm like a sword.

The notches are too shallow to effectively hold things picked up from the ground, unless perhaps to snag an item of clothing or material.
Why would a horseman compromise his blade for such nonsense?

The 'yelman' was NEVER intended for thrusting or any such purpose with the blade. The Poles called this feature colloquially 'the feather' , and its purpose was to add weight and momentum to the slashing cut. This has been made clear to me by sources who were Polish military history authorities, and the same purpose seems logically applied to other blades with this feature.

Sword 'catching' features are typically presumed as pragmatic explanation as in actual combat, such a 'catch' would seem almost surprising and coincidental.

In the thrust, which in combat was nearly always fatal, why would a wound need to be worsened, and with the potential of the blade becoming lodged in the victim?

These are just the views I have come up with in the years I've studied this, but I really appreciate input and exchange of ideas. Typically interest in this has been nominal at best, so thank you.

[JT88]

Found some information on Pottenstein for y'all!

Source: https://www.blankwaffenforum.de/inde...&threadID=4120

"Pottenstein in the Triestingtal in Lower Austria

so a Pottensteiner blade , originated around / or. before 1780 Empress MT in

particularwanted topromote Austria as a closer location through its own production facilities for weapons (blanks and firearms) and supported corresponding initiatives. This resulted in several companies, of which Pottenstein was one of them. The saber blade factory in Pottenstein an der Triesting offered when it was relocatedfrom Sollenau in 1764/65 (founded there by Adam von Metzberg in 1754 ) under its new owner


Melchior Steiner from the new location ideal conditions:
relatively convenient proximity to Vienna , the flowing water of the Triesting, which does not freeze in winter and plenty of wood available for production.
In 1766 28 workers were already employed in the Pottensteiner saber blade factory , the annual production amounted to 12,000 blades ( also for pallasche and hussar sabers) , which became known far beyond the Austrian hereditary lands under the term "Pottensteiner" --- and probably still are . 1769
The company expanded and not far from the old factory was given another property assigned by the Merkenstein rulers , where an even newer blade factory was built. In 1786 Steiner's nephew, Melchior Ritter von Steiner, took over the business. In 1800 there were about 50 workers , only then did the slow decline come : in
1811 (great inflationary period in Austria, Napoleon) only 7 workers left , in 1814 (Napoleonic period) almost shutdown.
After Melchior von Steiner's death in 1837 , the plant was finally liquidated in 1841and converted into a cotton mill.
I ask for your support in resolving my questions about the saber - thank you!"

[awdaniec666]

In case you wonder how these gentleman looked like