A peculiar 1796 Pattern 'Spadroon'

Radboud · 8th October 2021, 07:02 PM

Hello Jim,

Thank you for the comments, when the sword arrives I’ll measure it and add the results to this post with photos. However, according to the vendor it does not balance that well with the blade being heavy for the hilt.

Regarding the Andrea Farara markings there seems to be a lot of variation on these as they were being added to blades for the Scottish market by Solingen makers by the time this one was made. However I have seen photos of two basket hilt broadswords dating to the mid 18th C. That have a similar shape and markings with the Xs and the name across two sides (with the same orientation).

I’m fairly confident that this blade is a few decades older than the hilt the only thing that concerns me in that regard is that it is in very good condition without many of the usual age blemishes.

Jim McDougall · 8th October 2021, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radboud

Hello Jim,

Thank you for the comments, when the sword arrives I’ll measure it and add the results to this post with photos. However, according to the vendor it does not balance that well with the blade being heavy for the hilt.

Regarding the Andrea Farara markings there seems to be a lot of variation on these as they were pretty much all spurious, being added to blades for the Scottish market by Solingen makers by the time this blade was made. However I have seen photos of two basket hilt broadswords dating to the mid 18th C. That have a similar shape and markings with the Xs and the name across two sides (with the same orientation).

I’m fairly confident that this blade is a few decades older than the hilt the only thing that concerns me in that regard is that it is in very good condition without many of the usual age blemishes.

The balance issues as you have noted sound more in line with what I would have expected, and I think I was more impressed with actually seeing it in person, but not in the necessary holding postures.
The ANDREA FERARA blades for Scottish markets began appearing early in the 17th century and remained pretty standard up until Culloden (1746).
After that the only 'Scottish' swords were those made for the British army Highland regiments, as they had been produced in garrison towns since early 1700s.
Naturally the ANDREA FERARA blades were from Solingen and that mark became a kind of 'brand' to Scottish clients, however they did occur on English blades as well (I have a 'mortuary' c. 1642 with Ferara blade).

I share your concerns on the remarkable condition, as well as the character of the Andrea Ferara despite its following earlier configurations.

Radboud · 8th October 2021, 07:31 PM

Here is a photo of the markings from one of the swords I mentioned earlier:

Radboud · 8th October 2021, 07:38 PM

Here are the photos the vendor sent me of the markings plus a couple of the sword

Radboud · 8th October 2021, 07:44 PM

Apologies, I meant to add this one as well:

Jim McDougall · 9th October 2021, 04:02 AM

This is more bizarre than I thought. This is a heavy cavalry M1796 sword scabbard of the standard troopers form, also of the 'ladder hilt' pattern carried by officers.
Apparently in little known circumstances which have been remarkably researched by Richard Dellar (author of "The British Cavalry Sword: Some New Perspectives"2013) and presented in his "Did the French National Manufactory at Klingenthal Make British Blades ?" ("Man at Arms" Vol.43, #4, Aug. 2021),
there are some interesting possibilities.

As the author notes, despite the compelling evidence that some blades were mounted with Klingenthal markings, these may have been Solingen blades may have been acquired from there as surplus after the end of the Runkel enterprise.

This was during the post Waterloo occupation of Paris. Several British officers had weapons that needed refurbishing and contacted the Klingenthal works, known for high quality blades. However as they did not have the necessary patterns to produce the British heavy cavalry blades , they used contacts in Solingen to acquire a number of blades. As noted these 'anomalies' have turned up with Klingenthal markings.

After this "...other British officers followed suit and ordered replacement blades either as a result of damage or for ENHANCEMENT".

Could it be that this blade, which is basically of the width and profile of a heavy cavalry blade of the heavier form of 1796 for combat, was made at Klingenthal or in France in this situation ? If being commissioned privately for 'enhancement' the Andrea Ferara might have been so placed.

Clearly this is a tenuous suggestion, but the remarkable evidence in the Richard Dellar article offers compelling plausibility.

These swords all have such stories to tell!

This image (from MDL, for informational purposes only, not in stock) is the M1796 heavy cavalry officers 'honeysuckle' or 'ladder' hilt noted.,

Radboud · 9th October 2021, 06:27 AM

Hi Jim,

Thank you for your comments. I still think this is more of a backsword blade of the profile of the basket hilt swords from the time, especially with the double fullers. Most 1796 HC undress swords I’ve seen have the single broad fuller and follow the shape and style of the trooper version.

But like you say the scabbard is of the heavy cavalry style.

Truely a puzzle, but then this era did create some unique designs. I recently passed on a flank officers (grenadier) sabre with a boatshell guard combined with a P-shaped knuckle bow and a 1796 light cavalry like blade marked to J J Runkel.

As it will be coming up for auction soon I can’t post photos alas.

8th October 2021, 07:31 PM	#3
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 285	Here is a photo of the markings from one of the swords I mentioned earlier: Attached Images

8th October 2021, 07:44 PM	#5
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 285	Apologies, I meant to add this one as well: Attached Images

9th October 2021, 04:02 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,292	This is more bizarre than I thought. This is a heavy cavalry M1796 sword scabbard of the standard troopers form, also of the 'ladder hilt' pattern carried by officers. Apparently in little known circumstances which have been remarkably researched by Richard Dellar (author of "The British Cavalry Sword: Some New Perspectives"2013) and presented in his "Did the French National Manufactory at Klingenthal Make British Blades ?" ("Man at Arms" Vol.43, #4, Aug. 2021), there are some interesting possibilities. As the author notes, despite the compelling evidence that some blades were mounted with Klingenthal markings, these may have been Solingen blades may have been acquired from there as surplus after the end of the Runkel enterprise. This was during the post Waterloo occupation of Paris. Several British officers had weapons that needed refurbishing and contacted the Klingenthal works, known for high quality blades. However as they did not have the necessary patterns to produce the British heavy cavalry blades , they used contacts in Solingen to acquire a number of blades. As noted these 'anomalies' have turned up with Klingenthal markings. After this "...other British officers followed suit and ordered replacement blades either as a result of damage or for ENHANCEMENT". Could it be that this blade, which is basically of the width and profile of a heavy cavalry blade of the heavier form of 1796 for combat, was made at Klingenthal or in France in this situation ? If being commissioned privately for 'enhancement' the Andrea Ferara might have been so placed. Clearly this is a tenuous suggestion, but the remarkable evidence in the Richard Dellar article offers compelling plausibility. These swords all have such stories to tell! This image (from MDL, for informational purposes only, not in stock) is the M1796 heavy cavalry officers 'honeysuckle' or 'ladder' hilt noted., Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 9th October 2021 at 04:20 AM.

8th October 2021, 07:02 PM	#1
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 285	Hello Jim, Thank you for the comments, when the sword arrives I’ll measure it and add the results to this post with photos. However, according to the vendor it does not balance that well with the blade being heavy for the hilt. Regarding the Andrea Farara markings there seems to be a lot of variation on these as they were being added to blades for the Scottish market by Solingen makers by the time this one was made. However I have seen photos of two basket hilt broadswords dating to the mid 18th C. That have a similar shape and markings with the Xs and the name across two sides (with the same orientation). I’m fairly confident that this blade is a few decades older than the hilt the only thing that concerns me in that regard is that it is in very good condition without many of the usual age blemishes.

8th October 2021, 07:38 PM	#4
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 285	Here are the photos the vendor sent me of the markings plus a couple of the sword Attached Images

9th October 2021, 06:27 AM	#7
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 285	Hi Jim, Thank you for your comments. I still think this is more of a backsword blade of the profile of the basket hilt swords from the time, especially with the double fullers. Most 1796 HC undress swords I’ve seen have the single broad fuller and follow the shape and style of the trooper version. But like you say the scabbard is of the heavy cavalry style. Truely a puzzle, but then this era did create some unique designs. I recently passed on a flank officers (grenadier) sabre with a boatshell guard combined with a P-shaped knuckle bow and a 1796 light cavalry like blade marked to J J Runkel. As it will be coming up for auction soon I can’t post photos alas.