Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 26th August 2021, 11:22 PM   #1
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,281
Default

Interesting aspects I.P. though not sure most technical elements of fencing or sword fighting techniques are widely familiar to many researching these weapons. What I could find in Ostrowski ("The Polish Saber: Its Origin and Evolution", op.cit. 1979, p.233.

"karabela hilts have the shape of a stylized birds head................
...this shape assured a firm grip but like all Eastern sabers, the karabela was suitably chiefly for inflicting single slashes, in a duel, it required an uncomfortably high position of the hand and continuous parrying with the blade only instead of with blade, quillons and guard".

It is also noted that parade or dress examples often had damascene blades while combat versions had the same type blades as hussar sabers.

It appears that the oldest examples in Poland were among those captured in Vienna in 1683, and of course Turkish. By the second half of the 18th century the karabela had become a 'national' form and widely known during the campaigns for Polish independence and worn in a patriotic sense.

Apparently by second half 19th c. most examples were made in Cracow, Lvov and Vienna.

Other resources I do not have access to, but would be useful are by C. Jarnuszkiewicz :
"The Oriental Saber and its History and Technical Development", 1926
"The Oriental Saber and National Types", 1973
Both I believe are in Polish, but the 1973 publication was in London.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2021, 03:49 PM   #2
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 174
Default

Thanks again for those kind words!
You made few interesting points there Jim on which i wanted to briefly respond here, but get into in detail in a later part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall View Post
"(...), it required an uncomfortably high position of the hand and continuous parrying with the blade only instead of with blade, quillons and guard".
I think it was Zablocki who reported the "standart stance" for fencing with karabela-type sabers was the "seconde", for those who arent familiar with that: This means you hold the weapon with a very slightly bent ellbow with the hilt on the height of your eyes and the tip pointing in an angle of about 45° downwards and a little forward towards the opponent. I used to use this stance in a different saber-school and can say that it really tires your arm in the beginning but you get used to it. The main benefit of that stance is according to F.C.Christmann (German fencing master of Napoleonic dragoons and author of a fencing manual published in 1838) in beeing able to apply a lot of force into a cut by using the leverage of your wrist only ("moulinet-like-cuts").

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall View Post
It is also noted that parade or dress examples often had damascene blades while combat versions had the same type blades as hussar sabers.
I would love to see examples of those since I honestly cant remember seeing a damascene or wootz blade mounted on a karabela. But I know a lot of older battle-blades were mounted later on parade versions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall View Post
Apparently by second half 19th c. most examples were made in Cracow, Lvov and Vienna.
Indeed! Just to bring two names of decent karabela makers: Ignacy Hofelmayer from Cracow who worked in the mid 19th century and creating Karabelas in such a way that a lot of auctions houses nowadays have problems in telling the age and declare them as 18th century. I think price wouldnt be the reason since Hofelmayer sabers are very desired. Another makers were in Munich. Their names were Thomas and his son Johan Baptist Stroblberger. The father founded the workshop in 1791.
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
karabela, polish, saber, szabla


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.