blade mystery

Jim McDougall · 14th August 2021, 04:06 PM

Thank you Keith!
I found more on the curious mark on the hanger with the wolf and dot and trellis augment in Wallace Collection (Sir James Mann, 1962), p.244.
Apparently this mark is associated with the well known Stantler family of Munich who were established 1455-1647.

Obviously the family had numerous types of marks, and were known to have used spurious markings of various makers, particularly Spanish.

In this case, the glyph with curved upper cross arm as seen on this hanger in cartouche with similar mark appears top have been incorrectly attributed to VERDUN c.1480 by an author named Viollet du Lac ("Armourers Marks", Dudley S. Hawtrey Gyngell, 1959, p.25). The error was then perpetuated (as often the case) bv Z. Lenkiewicz in his "1000 Marks of European Blademakers" (1991).

Mann notes this mistaken attribution (op.cit.p.244) by Viollet du Lac and suggests that the error may owe to the similarity of the device to the double armed 'Cross of Lorraine".

Christoph Stantler II of Munich worked 1607-1636, so quite likely this blade is from this period.

Attached the original entry from Gyngell (note the ? mark)
The entry from Sir James Mann, (1962, p.244. The author in question, du Lac apparently wrote in 1868.

While this detail pertains to a hanger which went to unknown buyer, this information is for the benefit of future research with reference to the markings .

urbanspaceman · 14th August 2021, 08:30 PM

Benjamin Stone was the biggest operator at Hounslow; he was certainly the most notorious. His factories and mill feature prominently on the map of Hounslow at the time.
Most of the Germans there were supplying him or working for him; IENKES is a typical example.
Stone did not forge: he had a grinding mill and workshops for scabbards, belts and hilts.
Stone was supplying the Tower until civil war broke out when he de-camped, joined the King at Oxford and set up shop in Gloucester Hall and at Wolvercote. He never returned to Hounslow.
It is possible these German blades with that distinctive wolf were imported by Stone; but there were many others importing blades during the lifetime of Hounslow sword production
as it was accepted by the government that their enormous demands required importing from Germany and paying dearly; the only alternative was using English made blades which was not popular; I'm about to start a new thread relating to this issue.

mariusgmioc · 15th August 2021, 11:31 AM

Very interesting information!

Thank you guys!

14th August 2021, 04:06 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,470	Thank you Keith! I found more on the curious mark on the hanger with the wolf and dot and trellis augment in Wallace Collection (Sir James Mann, 1962), p.244. Apparently this mark is associated with the well known Stantler family of Munich who were established 1455-1647. Obviously the family had numerous types of marks, and were known to have used spurious markings of various makers, particularly Spanish. In this case, the glyph with curved upper cross arm as seen on this hanger in cartouche with similar mark appears top have been incorrectly attributed to VERDUN c.1480 by an author named Viollet du Lac ("Armourers Marks", Dudley S. Hawtrey Gyngell, 1959, p.25). The error was then perpetuated (as often the case) bv Z. Lenkiewicz in his "1000 Marks of European Blademakers" (1991). Mann notes this mistaken attribution (op.cit.p.244) by Viollet du Lac and suggests that the error may owe to the similarity of the device to the double armed 'Cross of Lorraine". Christoph Stantler II of Munich worked 1607-1636, so quite likely this blade is from this period. Attached the original entry from Gyngell (note the ? mark) The entry from Sir James Mann, (1962, p.244. The author in question, du Lac apparently wrote in 1868. While this detail pertains to a hanger which went to unknown buyer, this information is for the benefit of future research with reference to the markings . Attached Images

14th August 2021, 08:30 PM	#2
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 691	blade marks at Hounslow Benjamin Stone was the biggest operator at Hounslow; he was certainly the most notorious. His factories and mill feature prominently on the map of Hounslow at the time. Most of the Germans there were supplying him or working for him; IENKES is a typical example. Stone did not forge: he had a grinding mill and workshops for scabbards, belts and hilts. Stone was supplying the Tower until civil war broke out when he de-camped, joined the King at Oxford and set up shop in Gloucester Hall and at Wolvercote. He never returned to Hounslow. It is possible these German blades with that distinctive wolf were imported by Stone; but there were many others importing blades during the lifetime of Hounslow sword production as it was accepted by the government that their enormous demands required importing from Germany and paying dearly; the only alternative was using English made blades which was not popular; I'm about to start a new thread relating to this issue.

15th August 2021, 11:31 AM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Very interesting information! Thank you guys!