Thoughts on burgonet construction

ulfberth · 3rd August 2021, 03:06 PM

As Jim said, it's an antique on its own and these do have value depending on their quality.
It's more than just a steel helmet, and a nice model to in close resemblance to the original one. As for the letters in the ears, it could very well be from a stock of a theatre or prop rental.
I remember a few decades ago when a theatre prop rental sold out there even were some original items in their stock, these things still happen.
That's what makes our passion so exiting, and some armours of Ernst Schmid have sold as high as original ones. This one was sold for 54,675 £ at Christies in 2013 and it was described correct as early 20th C Ernst Schmidt.
kind regards
Ulfberth

fernando · 3rd August 2021, 08:42 PM

You may always find a noveau riche paying a fortune for a replica. Yet no magic lamp genious will turn the thing into the real deal

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10thRoyal · 4th August 2021, 02:25 PM

I might have to pick up a copy of The Atelier of Ernst Schmidt of Munich just for reference. It sounds like things aren't all bad. The funds from this helmet can go to buying a piece with a more concrete claim to authenticity.

ulfberth · 4th August 2021, 05:28 PM

In my opinion quality reproductions need to be studied just as intensely as originals. To think one would be able to recognise them without studying them is a bit naive.

Jim McDougall · 4th August 2021, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10thRoyal

I might have to pick up a copy of The Atelier of Ernst Schmidt of Munich just for reference. It sounds like things aren't all bad. The funds from this helmet can go to buying a piece with a more concrete claim to authenticity.

At 'MyArmoury' online, they have two articles that you can read on their site both on Shmidt. As mentioned Amazon has the book. It would be well worth your while to follow up via that route.
As Ulfberht notes, much can be learned from studying these reproductions as often a great deal of attention taking from originals had to be taken.

While the topic of reproductions here is not part of the discussion theme, the site mentioned does get involved with those aspects.

10thRoyal · 10th August 2021, 03:19 PM

I ended up getting in contact with a museum curator to talk about ways to identify Victorian repros from originals. It seems that ulfberth was right on focusing on metal texture and signs of forming method, and that yes lettering on armor can be arsenal marks but they can just as locally have been added by a theater production company. I also didn't consider how "modern" the calligraphy of the painted lettering was. So all in all a good educational experience. I found it funny that he agreed that my piece was most likely a reproduction.... but he wouldn't put money on that unless he got to see it in person. So no matter what, it is always a bit of a gamble.

3rd August 2021, 03:06 PM	#1
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 430	As Jim said, it's an antique on its own and these do have value depending on their quality. It's more than just a steel helmet, and a nice model to in close resemblance to the original one. As for the letters in the ears, it could very well be from a stock of a theatre or prop rental. I remember a few decades ago when a theatre prop rental sold out there even were some original items in their stock, these things still happen. That's what makes our passion so exiting, and some armours of Ernst Schmid have sold as high as original ones. This one was sold for 54,675 £ at Christies in 2013 and it was described correct as early 20th C Ernst Schmidt. kind regards Ulfberth Attached Images

3rd August 2021, 08:42 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Replicas ? thanks, but no thanks. You may always find a noveau riche paying a fortune for a replica. Yet no magic lamp genious will turn the thing into the real deal .

4th August 2021, 02:25 PM	#3
10thRoyal Member Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 82	I might have to pick up a copy of The Atelier of Ernst Schmidt of Munich just for reference. It sounds like things aren't all bad. The funds from this helmet can go to buying a piece with a more concrete claim to authenticity.

4th August 2021, 05:28 PM	#4
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 430	In my opinion quality reproductions need to be studied just as intensely as originals. To think one would be able to recognise them without studying them is a bit naive.

10th August 2021, 03:19 PM	#6
10thRoyal Member Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 82	I ended up getting in contact with a museum curator to talk about ways to identify Victorian repros from originals. It seems that ulfberth was right on focusing on metal texture and signs of forming method, and that yes lettering on armor can be arsenal marks but they can just as locally have been added by a theater production company. I also didn't consider how "modern" the calligraphy of the painted lettering was. So all in all a good educational experience. I found it funny that he agreed that my piece was most likely a reproduction.... but he wouldn't put money on that unless he got to see it in person. So no matter what, it is always a bit of a gamble.