Two West(?) Javaneses Keris with Sumatra style hilt

Jean · 19th July 2021, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Do the atribution to Lampung for the hilts from #1 go back to Jensen, or was this done already before him?

One from Tradescant collection has an european (?) replacement instead of Mendak, the Nr. 2884 from Dresden, which perhaps also goes back to 17th cent., has a Javanese Mendak.

Hello Gustav,
The book from Jensen in Danish language was published in 1998 and it shows the attached kris N° 2884 from Dresden with this style of hilt and attributed to Lampung. The scabbard and mendak could be Javanese indeed but the blade is very different from the strong blades of the same period brought from Banten and Blambangan.
Some earlier books like the ones from Tammens (1994) show rather similar hilts attributed to Palembang (Vol. 3, pages 187 & 188).

Gustav · 19th July 2021, 10:59 AM

Jean, thank you.

I have both works of Jensen, I don't have Tammens vol. 3, I have seen Nr. 2884 in Dresden.

For the hilt form, I would say, not Banten, more likely North coast, perhaps Cirebon. Nr. 2884 is a small blade (about 33 cm), and has lost much of it's material and shape - look at the Wadidang, the strong base of Kembang Kacang (with KK itself almost completely gone), and how thin the blade suddenly becomes abowe it at the first Luk. The sheath is very close or identical to what today would be attributed to Cirebon.

The blades from #1 also are small ones, and we see small blades from Cirebon and Tegal.

Jensen in his book generally attributes the big blades to Banten and Blambangan, shifts some small blades, like Fig. 71 to Cirebon, Fig. 77 to Mataram (which clearly is nonsense), and allows other small blades stay in his Banten classification, like Fig. 52 (blade about 30 cm) and Fig. 64 (about 33 cm).

What I want to say is, possibly we would encounter such hilt in S Sumatra, we possibly would encounter even a sheath form, which today commonly would be attributed to N W Java coast, in S Sumatra, not to speak about blade forms.

But the origin of expansion of these forms most likely will be N W coast of Java.

Jean · 19th July 2021, 12:05 PM

Thank you Gustav and I don't disagree with you regarding Jensen (nobody is perfect but he was a precious contributor to the keris story).
I attach the pics of the 2 similar (but not equivalent) hilts from Tammens just for your reference.

Gustav · 19th July 2021, 12:17 PM

Thank you, Jean.

Athanase · 19th July 2021, 03:10 PM

I note that the handle reported as coming from Lampung in Tammens Vol. 3 is typical of Cirebon.
Even though the hilt style of this subject is from Lampung, I don't have a Selut to go with it, and the scabbards are from Java so I put on mendaks that I had in stock (an old one (left) and a new one in an old style (right)).

19th July 2021, 10:59 AM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Jean, thank you. I have both works of Jensen, I don't have Tammens vol. 3, I have seen Nr. 2884 in Dresden. For the hilt form, I would say, not Banten, more likely North coast, perhaps Cirebon. Nr. 2884 is a small blade (about 33 cm), and has lost much of it's material and shape - look at the Wadidang, the strong base of Kembang Kacang (with KK itself almost completely gone), and how thin the blade suddenly becomes abowe it at the first Luk. The sheath is very close or identical to what today would be attributed to Cirebon. The blades from #1 also are small ones, and we see small blades from Cirebon and Tegal. Jensen in his book generally attributes the big blades to Banten and Blambangan, shifts some small blades, like Fig. 71 to Cirebon, Fig. 77 to Mataram (which clearly is nonsense), and allows other small blades stay in his Banten classification, like Fig. 52 (blade about 30 cm) and Fig. 64 (about 33 cm). What I want to say is, possibly we would encounter such hilt in S Sumatra, we possibly would encounter even a sheath form, which today commonly would be attributed to N W Java coast, in S Sumatra, not to speak about blade forms. But the origin of expansion of these forms most likely will be N W coast of Java. Last edited by Gustav; 19th July 2021 at 12:18 PM. Reason: spelling

19th July 2021, 12:05 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you Gustav and I don't disagree with you regarding Jensen (nobody is perfect but he was a precious contributor to the keris story). I attach the pics of the 2 similar (but not equivalent) hilts from Tammens just for your reference. Attached Images

19th July 2021, 03:10 PM	#5
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 420	I note that the handle reported as coming from Lampung in Tammens Vol. 3 is typical of Cirebon. Even though the hilt style of this subject is from Lampung, I don't have a Selut to go with it, and the scabbards are from Java so I put on mendaks that I had in stock (an old one (left) and a new one in an old style (right)). Attached Images

19th July 2021, 12:17 PM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Thank you, Jean.