Unusual Quaddara

ariel · 7th July 2021, 05:06 PM

Sorry for being not specific enough
My question relates to the place of manufacture: is it Iranian or Turkish? The mix of styles is obvious.
Far, far behind there is the possibility of Daghestani manufacture , simply on the ground that it was recently acquired in Derbent. I fully understand that the likelihood of it is vanishingly low: definitely there are no actual examples of Daghestani weapons of that nature, and the item might have been traveling far and wide during its life.
I cannot see the area of transition between the blade and the tang: it is covered by the " bolster". The lateral sides of the tang are open; they are heavily patinated. I can find no evidence that the handle is anything but original. In fact, one side of it was cracked and repaired.
The spine of the blade has no decorations; instead there is a deep rounded channel ( fuller-like) going all the way along the length.

mariusgmioc · 7th July 2021, 08:16 PM

Very interesting piece.

I do not think there is any solution that would allow cleaning it without damaging the koftgari.

The less damaging might be to try to immerse the blade in Picreator's Metal De-corroder, but that might be risky as well.

ariel · 8th July 2021, 06:14 AM

How about just oiling it and gently go over it with a soft cloth?
Or Renaissance Wax it?

Dilemma: should I risk damaging it or should I allow it to rust itself to death?

Gonzoadler · 8th July 2021, 07:56 AM

Hello,

You can clean the blade with oil, but that needs a long time.
The faster way is vinegar, but that has also some disadvantages.
The surface can become dull and you have to be carefully with leather and horn parts and the metal parts should be cleaned with water and oil after whole process.
I can't really see how bad the rust is. If it is bad I would clean it, but you have to accept to lose patina.

Because of the origin: I would say it is persian, but that is just a feeling.

Regards
Robin

Saracen · 8th July 2021, 01:58 PM

If the rust has already penetrated under the koftgari, then these areas of the koftgari can no longer be saved.
So just lubricate with oil and stop the active rust.

mahratt · 8th July 2021, 02:01 PM

No one is surprised by the presence of varying degrees of rust on the blade and the perfect preservation of the horn handle?

I would very much like to see a high-quality photo (high-quality - this means a sharpness high-definition photo) of the entire blade and a separate photo of point.

mariusgmioc · 8th July 2021, 04:05 PM

Hmmm.... now that you are saying....

The photos are very poor quality but I find surprising the fairly pristine condition of the cutting edge, relative to the koftgari area. Usually, the proximity of the cutting edge and mostly the tip of the blade (that is usually inside the chape) are the most affected by pitting.

I also find interesting how even the rust is on the koftgari areas.

But I am known to be on the paranoid side...

7th July 2021, 05:06 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Sorry for being not specific enough My question relates to the place of manufacture: is it Iranian or Turkish? The mix of styles is obvious. Far, far behind there is the possibility of Daghestani manufacture , simply on the ground that it was recently acquired in Derbent. I fully understand that the likelihood of it is vanishingly low: definitely there are no actual examples of Daghestani weapons of that nature, and the item might have been traveling far and wide during its life. I cannot see the area of transition between the blade and the tang: it is covered by the " bolster". The lateral sides of the tang are open; they are heavily patinated. I can find no evidence that the handle is anything but original. In fact, one side of it was cracked and repaired. The spine of the blade has no decorations; instead there is a deep rounded channel ( fuller-like) going all the way along the length.

7th July 2021, 08:16 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Very interesting piece. I do not think there is any solution that would allow cleaning it without damaging the koftgari. The less damaging might be to try to immerse the blade in Picreator's Metal De-corroder, but that might be risky as well.

8th July 2021, 06:14 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	How about just oiling it and gently go over it with a soft cloth? Or Renaissance Wax it? Dilemma: should I risk damaging it or should I allow it to rust itself to death?

8th July 2021, 07:56 AM	#4
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	Hello, You can clean the blade with oil, but that needs a long time. The faster way is vinegar, but that has also some disadvantages. The surface can become dull and you have to be carefully with leather and horn parts and the metal parts should be cleaned with water and oil after whole process. I can't really see how bad the rust is. If it is bad I would clean it, but you have to accept to lose patina. Because of the origin: I would say it is persian, but that is just a feeling. Regards Robin

8th July 2021, 01:58 PM	#5
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	If the rust has already penetrated under the koftgari, then these areas of the koftgari can no longer be saved. So just lubricate with oil and stop the active rust.

8th July 2021, 02:01 PM	#6
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	No one is surprised by the presence of varying degrees of rust on the blade and the perfect preservation of the horn handle? I would very much like to see a high-quality photo (high-quality - this means a sharpness high-definition photo) of the entire blade and a separate photo of point.

8th July 2021, 04:05 PM	#7
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Hmmm.... now that you are saying.... The photos are very poor quality but I find surprising the fairly pristine condition of the cutting edge, relative to the koftgari area. Usually, the proximity of the cutting edge and mostly the tip of the blade (that is usually inside the chape) are the most affected by pitting. I also find interesting how even the rust is on the koftgari areas. But I am known to be on the paranoid side...