fancy ottoman dagger with corals...

francantolin · 20th March 2021, 08:36 AM

Hello,

Thank you Kubur and Marius for your reply,

Yes as I wrote in the first post, the blade is a decorated simple sheet of steel contrasting ( for me ) with all the work for the scabbard.

Perhaps ( maybe certainly ), these semi precious stones and coral were common and massively produced in the region ( Trabzon ??) maybe cheap stuff so craftmen covered all kind of stuff for a low-reasonnable price.

I will add that it was fashionable at that time! ( For export in Europe too)
( I know, I'm old fashioned

... )

That can explain why we find so many ewer, belt buckles... and muskets, swords with these ornaments, turning them finally just in deco pieces...

Kubur · 20th March 2021, 10:23 AM

Presentation swords or not
These swords were used in the late 19th and early 20th c.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=pala+coral

mariusgmioc · 20th March 2021, 10:32 AM

Yes, you are right.

Both coral (from the Mediterranean Sea) and turquoise (from Persia/Iran) were very abundant and rather cheap in Ottoman Turkey.

Turquoise was massively exported to Europe, to the point it got its name TURQuoise from TURKey (albeit it originated in Persia).

And this type of decorated swords and daggers were equally abundant in Ottoman Turkey (especially in the late 19th and early 20th century) but were mostly reserved for export, presentation or parade (like part of the traditional costume at weddings) items and not for real combat. That's why you can see very few of them in Turkish reputed museums (like Topkapi Palace Museum or Istanbul Military Museum).

However, some are very decorative and collectible as they represent a significant style and trend for the period.

Rick · 20th March 2021, 04:32 PM

Just a tag-end question about the corals:
Why are the red coral pieces almost always lozenge shaped with grooved surfaces?

mariusgmioc · 22nd March 2021, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Just a tag-end question about the corals:
Why are the red coral pieces almost always lozenge shaped with grooved surfaces?

I do not know the answer but I can speculate the Mediteranean coral had thinner branches and possibly differently toned core, so in order to display the consistent orange colour they needed to be cut along the direction of the branch. Now, why grooved?!?!?

20th March 2021, 10:23 AM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Presentation swords or not These swords were used in the late 19th and early 20th c. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=pala+coral Attached Images

20th March 2021, 08:36 AM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Hello, Thank you Kubur and Marius for your reply, Yes as I wrote in the first post, the blade is a decorated simple sheet of steel contrasting ( for me ) with all the work for the scabbard. Perhaps ( maybe certainly ), these semi precious stones and coral were common and massively produced in the region ( Trabzon ??) maybe cheap stuff so craftmen covered all kind of stuff for a low-reasonnable price. I will add that it was fashionable at that time! ( For export in Europe too) ( I know, I'm old fashioned ... ) That can explain why we find so many ewer, belt buckles... and muskets, swords with these ornaments, turning them finally just in deco pieces...

20th March 2021, 10:32 AM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Yes, you are right. Both coral (from the Mediterranean Sea) and turquoise (from Persia/Iran) were very abundant and rather cheap in Ottoman Turkey. Turquoise was massively exported to Europe, to the point it got its name TURQuoise from TURKey (albeit it originated in Persia). And this type of decorated swords and daggers were equally abundant in Ottoman Turkey (especially in the late 19th and early 20th century) but were mostly reserved for export, presentation or parade (like part of the traditional costume at weddings) items and not for real combat. That's why you can see very few of them in Turkish reputed museums (like Topkapi Palace Museum or Istanbul Military Museum). However, some are very decorative and collectible as they represent a significant style and trend for the period.

20th March 2021, 04:32 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Just a tag-end question about the corals: Why are the red coral pieces almost always lozenge shaped with grooved surfaces?