Show us your Maguindanao panabas

[kai]

To start things off, here a few examples I'm currently taking care of:

(Pics courtesy of Gavin & Oliver)

[Interested Party]

Are these related to what Van Zonneveld called "stick swords" from Flores?

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Are these related to what Van Zonneveld called "stick swords" from Flores?

Hi sorry, I'm not familiar with the names and context you mentioned- can you provide me a link or short summary? Thanks.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Hi sorry, I'm not familiar with the names and context you mentioned- can you provide me a link or short summary? Thanks.

Xas, this is the little bit I know. It is from "Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago." Pictures 525 in particular and 526 somewhat reminded me of the panabas so I thought i would ask the experts.

Ian thank you very much for the explanation. It helped.

[Ian]

Hi IP,

Thanks for showing the van Zonneveld pictures and text. I've taken the liberty of scanning the figures to try to get a clearer image. Afraid the original pictures are not very good.

Ian.
.

[kai]

Here's another example of the long version from eastern Flores; from handling, these are more akin to a kampilan (with the longer hilt compensating for the shorter blade). The blades were usually/often imported from SE Sulawesi and no hints seem to be extant suggesting any direct link with the Moro traditions.

Regards,
Kai

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Are these related to what Van Zonneveld called "stick swords" from Flores?

Hi IP:

I don't think there is a direct link or a particular association between the two. The panabas as a weapon is thought to be derived from an agricultural tool known as a tabas--the two coexist today. This more basic tool seems to be an item found in various parts of Asia, being basically a long curved axe for chopping. I have seen similar tools in northern India and mainland SE Asia (e.g., Thai pra). It is possible that "stick swords" in the Malay world were derived from similar agricultural implements in their respective cultures. In Europe, long-bladed glave are probably another example of an agricultural tool of this general type finding its way into armories.

[Rick]

A Stick Sword or Toa from Solor.

[Mefidk]

Here's mine. Interested to see what you knowledgeable folks think of it.

[kai]

Hello Chris,

Nice one! (Let me know whenever you decide to let it go... )

It sure does look like it was ready for a spike; seems it was originally intended without a spike though. Any hints from close examination?

Regards,
Kai

[Mefidk]

No indication that it ever had a spike, looks like it was made this way. The blade is heavy duty, 1cm thick at the base - I would definitely not like to be in the way of anyone swinging this!

Are the copper filled holes common decoration on these?

Best,
Chris

[kai]

There also was the notion that the panabas might be related to a family of bent blades from Borneo (buko, latok, pandat, sadap, tangkin). However, these exhibit pretty different handling characteristics and construction details; moreover, these were dedicated war swords while the panabas is widely acknowledged to have agrarian roots.

I don't think there is a direct link or a particular association between the two. The panabas as a weapon is thought to be derived from an agricultural tool known as a tabas--the two coexist today. This more basic tool seems to be an item found in various parts of Asia, being basically a long curved axe for chopping. I have seen similar tools in northern India and mainland SE Asia (e.g., Thai pra). It is possible that "stick swords" in the Malay world were derived from similar agricultural implements in their respective cultures. In Europe, long-bladed glave are probably another example of an agricultural tool of this general type finding its way into armories.

I'm with Ian in believing that many of these developments were local and that it needs very close similarities to suggest any adaptation from other cultures. There always have been migrations and other cultural influences. However, with blacksmithing already present for about 2 millennia throughout much of the archipelago, any common ancestor will often be very hard to establish.

Regards,
Kai

[Interested Party]

Sorry for the bad picture. I had lighting issues and was more interested in presenting the text. When I looked at the originals with a jeweler's loop 526 appeared to have a Indonesian or Sumatran style pamor. 528 had a cloudy line down the longitudinal center of the blade with a light towards the cutting edge and a dark side towards the spine. I can't tell if it is a lamination mark or a differential temper.

Thank you all for explaining the ancestry of these weapons. Am I correct in assuming that they occupied similar places in the relative martial traditions as heavy choppers? I would imagine that given proximity these are cultures that had some contact with each other. I have been noticing that posted examples have very little edge damage. Does this mean that there was little blade to blade contact in this martial arts system, i.e. no or few parries, or are surviving examples ones that did not see use?

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Sorry for the bad picture. I had lighting issues and was more interested in presenting the text. When I looked at the originals with a jeweler's loop 526 appeared to have a Indonesian or Sumatran style pamor. 528 had a cloudy line down the longitudinal center of the blade with a light towards the cutting edge and a dark side towards the spine. I can't tell if it is a lamination mark or a differential temper.

Thank you all for explaining the ancestry of these weapons. Am I correct in assuming that they occupied similar places in the relative martial traditions as heavy choppers? I would imagine that given proximity these are cultures that had some contact with each other. I have been noticing that posted examples have very little edge damage. Does this mean that there was little blade to blade contact in this martial arts system, i.e. no or few parries, or are surviving examples ones that did not see use?

The small panabas pictured here has quite a bit of edge damage and a bullet wound to boot.

[drac2k]

Here are four of my favorite panabas,(panabi ?).

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Rick

The small panabas pictured here has quite a bit of edge damage and a bullet wound to boot.

What an elegant sample Rick!

Sorry I couldn't help but notice the barung on top- does that have a clipped upper edge?

[kai]

Hello IP,

Sorry for the bad picture. I had lighting issues and was more interested in presenting the text. When I looked at the originals with a jeweler's loop 526 appeared to have a Indonesian or Sumatran style pamor. 528 had a cloudy line down the longitudinal center of the blade with a light towards the cutting edge and a dark side towards the spine. I can't tell if it is a lamination mark or a differential temper.

Figs. 525 and 526 as well as my example from post #26 are typical blades from SE Sulawesi. The steel tends to be of good quality and the crafted pamor may be basic, sometimes quite blotchy laminations to twistcore or other exquisite pattern welding. Due to the long hilt, the not very heavy blades are quite agile (at least compared to the pade and even belida blades which tend to be heavier).

Those axe-like blades from Solor/Adonara seem to be quite plain and probably locally crafted from imported steel.

Thank you all for explaining the ancestry of these weapons. Am I correct in assuming that they occupied similar places in the relative martial traditions as heavy choppers? I would imagine that given proximity these are cultures that had some contact with each other.

Don't underestimate the tropical distances though; some cultures were much more landlocked than others. There was an extensive trade network operated by seafaring cultures for times pretty much immemorial. OTOH, many local peoples traveled rarely if ever.

I have been noticing that posted examples have very little edge damage. Does this mean that there was little blade to blade contact in this martial arts system, i.e. no or few parries, or are surviving examples ones that did not see use?

Many of the groups are so remote/small/etc. that hardly anything is known about their genuine MAs in the ol' days. Moreover, we need to be extremely careful with any generalisations, especially considering the extreme diversity.

However, it seems to be true that direct blade to blade contact is usually much more avoided than in medieval and later Europe; binding is not a common strategy.

Edge damage is certainly not rare though with many old blades; however, the edges are usually keen and well maintained during active service. You usually see the effects of constant sharpening, etc. At some point, old blades get either worn down and recycled or retired into more ceremonial usage. TLC over extended periods tends to obscure signs of prior use.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

I have been noticing that posted examples have very little edge damage. Does this mean that there was little blade to blade contact in this martial arts system, i.e. no or few parries, or are surviving examples ones that did not see use?

Hello IP,

The one on the blue background I've shown in post #16 has a lot of nicks at the edge.

Regards,
Detlef