The British Broad Arrow Mark

corrado26 · 4th February 2021, 06:07 PM

Here are fotos aof a carbine made during the reign of James II. which has no broad arrow, so its introduction must have been later.

corrado26 · 4th February 2021, 06:12 PM

.........and here a pistol of 1747 with the boad arrow

corrado26 · 4th February 2021, 06:14 PM

.........and here a pistol of 1747 with the boad arrow and a pistol of Dragoon Guards 1738 with the arrow on its barrel

Jim McDougall · 4th February 2021, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

Here are fotos aof a carbine made during the reign of James II. which has no broad arrow, so its introduction must have been later.

Given the civil unrest of these times, it seems likely that the Board of Ordnance may not have been involved in the issue of this gun, thus that stamp of broad arrow while prevailing earlier on gun components might not be present.

Jim McDougall · 4th February 2021, 07:24 PM

"...before 1855, swords obtained by the Board of Ordnance were often stamped with the Board's mark, a broad arrow and the letters BO. After the abolition of the Board in 1855, this marking was replaced by a broad arrow and the letters WD, standing for War Department."
"Swords of the British Army", Brian Robson, revised 1996, p.279

Fernando K · 4th February 2021, 07:56 PM

Hi there

just or for a question. I have read somewhere about the origin of the "broad arrow". The deer, which roamed freely in England, were owned by the Crown (Like our horses and wild cows, in Argentina, called for that "reyunos"). To hunt them, an arrow with a wide iron was used. The archer who was found with this arrow was hanged with the string of his own bow. Is that?

Will M · 4th February 2021, 08:24 PM

Fernando that's an interesting theory. Certainly wide arrowheads are made to hit arteries and bleed the animal before it runs too far away, the same reason we use them today.
Steel was a valuable commodity and placing govt. marks on the products would make selling or having it in your possession a dangerous thing. I would think the average person would not have access to steel files or other means of removing the arrow marking.

adrian · 4th February 2021, 08:45 PM

Does anyone know when the broad arrow was first used on weapons to signify government ownership?

During the reign of of Queen Anne, the Rose and Crown mark was replaced by the Crown and Crossed Sceptres mark, and the Royal Cypher had a broad arrow added underneath. (Ref H.L. Blackmore, "British Military Firearms 1650-1850". p265.) So it seems accepted that the arrow appears of firearms from the very early 1700's. In "The Brown Bess" by Goldstein & Mowbray they depict a style of early crowned arrow stamp used from from 1706-11.

I have a heavily restored musket of King William's reign, it has a no arrows at all and a paper written by David Williams "The Flintlock Ordnance Muskets of William III and their Supply" includes a description of their markings (ten muskets were used for his study) and there is no mention of an arrow used to lock, stock or barrel. King William III died in 1702 & his wife Ann became queen, this supports the evidence that the arrow appears, on firearms, during Queen Ann's reign.

Jim McDougall · 4th February 2021, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrian

Does anyone know when the broad arrow was first used on weapons to signify government ownership?

During the reign of of Queen Anne, the Rose and Crown mark was replaced by the Crown and Crossed Sceptres mark, and the Royal Cypher had a broad arrow added underneath. (Ref H.L. Blackmore, "British Military Firearms 1650-1850". p265.) So it seems accepted that the arrow appears of firearms from the very early 1700's. In "The Brown Bess" by Goldstein & Mowbray they depict a style of early crowned arrow stamp used from from 1706-11.

I have a heavily restored musket of King William's reign, it has a no arrows at all and a paper written by David Williams "The Flintlock Ordnance Muskets of William III and their Supply" includes a description of their markings (ten muskets were used for his study) and there is no mention of an arrow used to lock, stock or barrel. King William III died in 1702 & his wife Ann became queen, this supports the evidence that the arrow appears, on firearms, during Queen Ann's reign.

Excellent entry Adrian!!! We crossed posts

fernando · 5th February 2021, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrian

Does anyone know when the broad arrow was first used on weapons to signify government ownership?

During the reign of of Queen Anne, the Rose and Crown mark was replaced by the Crown and Crossed Sceptres mark, and the Royal Cypher had a broad arrow added underneath. (Ref H.L. Blackmore, "British Military Firearms 1650-1850". p265.) So it seems accepted that the arrow appears of firearms from the very early 1700's. In "The Brown Bess" by Goldstein & Mowbray they depict a style of early crowned arrow stamp used from from 1706-11.

I have a heavily restored musket of King William's reign, it has a no arrows at all and a paper written by David Williams "The Flintlock Ordnance Muskets of William III and their Supply" includes a description of their markings (ten muskets were used for his study) and there is no mention of an arrow used to lock, stock or barrel. King William III died in 1702 & his wife Ann became queen, this supports the evidence that the arrow appears, on firearms, during Queen Ann's reign.

So it does, Adrian

.

.

Jim McDougall · 4th February 2021, 09:08 PM

"...the BROAD ARROW mark now making its appearance on ordnance stores was a Government mark which can be traced back to the 14th c. , when in 1386, a certain Thomas Stokes was condemned to the pillory for pretending to be a Kings officer and marking some barrels of ale with the 'AREWHEDE' mark. Although the Broad arrow mark s mentioned in the 1699 notice it does not seem to have been generally introduced until the reign of Queen Anne. Throughout the reigns of Charles II, James II and William III, the two government marks stamped on gun barrels were the rose and crown mark and the Royal Cypher. On the locks the Royal cypher was engraved in the middle, with the name of the maker across the tail".
"British Military Firearms 1650-1850"
Howard L. Blackmore, 1962, p.262

The reference to the 1699 notice refers to a notice in the London Gazette, Feb. 1699 drawing attention to an act of Parliament against the embezzlement of stores: "...the marks on his Majesty's arms...which are, the Kings cypher in the reign in which they were made and the rose and crown on the barrels, and SOMETIMES THE BROAD ARROW........".

It would seem that beyond these provisions for marking of the locks and barrels of firearms, it was the STOCK that was marked with the broad arrow and BO. ...according to plates in Blackmore.

4th February 2021, 06:07 PM	#1
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,231	Here are fotos aof a carbine made during the reign of James II. which has no broad arrow, so its introduction must have been later. Attached Images

4th February 2021, 06:12 PM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,231	.........and here a pistol of 1747 with the boad arrow Attached Images

4th February 2021, 06:14 PM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,231	.........and here a pistol of 1747 with the boad arrow and a pistol of Dragoon Guards 1738 with the arrow on its barrel Attached Images

4th February 2021, 08:45 PM	#8
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 132	Does anyone know when the broad arrow was first used on weapons to signify government ownership? During the reign of of Queen Anne, the Rose and Crown mark was replaced by the Crown and Crossed Sceptres mark, and the Royal Cypher had a broad arrow added underneath. (Ref H.L. Blackmore, "British Military Firearms 1650-1850". p265.) So it seems accepted that the arrow appears of firearms from the very early 1700's. In "The Brown Bess" by Goldstein & Mowbray they depict a style of early crowned arrow stamp used from from 1706-11. I have a heavily restored musket of King William's reign, it has a no arrows at all and a paper written by David Williams "The Flintlock Ordnance Muskets of William III and their Supply" includes a description of their markings (ten muskets were used for his study) and there is no mention of an arrow used to lock, stock or barrel. King William III died in 1702 & his wife Ann became queen, this supports the evidence that the arrow appears, on firearms, during Queen Ann's reign. Last edited by adrian; 4th February 2021 at 09:05 PM.

4th February 2021, 07:24 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,295	"...before 1855, swords obtained by the Board of Ordnance were often stamped with the Board's mark, a broad arrow and the letters BO. After the abolition of the Board in 1855, this marking was replaced by a broad arrow and the letters WD, standing for War Department." "Swords of the British Army", Brian Robson, revised 1996, p.279

4th February 2021, 07:56 PM	#6
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hi there just or for a question. I have read somewhere about the origin of the "broad arrow". The deer, which roamed freely in England, were owned by the Crown (Like our horses and wild cows, in Argentina, called for that "reyunos"). To hunt them, an arrow with a wide iron was used. The archer who was found with this arrow was hanged with the string of his own bow. Is that?

4th February 2021, 08:24 PM	#7
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 395	Fernando that's an interesting theory. Certainly wide arrowheads are made to hit arteries and bleed the animal before it runs too far away, the same reason we use them today. Steel was a valuable commodity and placing govt. marks on the products would make selling or having it in your possession a dangerous thing. I would think the average person would not have access to steel files or other means of removing the arrow marking.

4th February 2021, 09:08 PM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,295	"...the BROAD ARROW mark now making its appearance on ordnance stores was a Government mark which can be traced back to the 14th c. , when in 1386, a certain Thomas Stokes was condemned to the pillory for pretending to be a Kings officer and marking some barrels of ale with the 'AREWHEDE' mark. Although the Broad arrow mark s mentioned in the 1699 notice it does not seem to have been generally introduced until the reign of Queen Anne. Throughout the reigns of Charles II, James II and William III, the two government marks stamped on gun barrels were the rose and crown mark and the Royal Cypher. On the locks the Royal cypher was engraved in the middle, with the name of the maker across the tail". "British Military Firearms 1650-1850" Howard L. Blackmore, 1962, p.262 The reference to the 1699 notice refers to a notice in the London Gazette, Feb. 1699 drawing attention to an act of Parliament against the embezzlement of stores: "...the marks on his Majesty's arms...which are, the Kings cypher in the reign in which they were made and the rose and crown on the barrels, and SOMETIMES THE BROAD ARROW........". It would seem that beyond these provisions for marking of the locks and barrels of firearms, it was the STOCK that was marked with the broad arrow and BO. ...according to plates in Blackmore.