Pair of lance heads

Richard G · 25th January 2021, 04:20 PM

OK, I'll bite.
They look to me as if they could be the shoe of a lance or pike, rather than the head.
And I can't see a reason why they shouldn't be old.
Regards
Richard

fernando · 25th January 2021, 04:52 PM

Do you think so, Ricard ?
... with such (would be) long langets ?

cel7 · 25th January 2021, 05:35 PM

I'm not sure about that. The decorated thickening in the center looks like something that you would find on a wild bore hunting spear, for preventing entering to deep. But I am not sure either.

fernando · 25th January 2021, 05:41 PM

This being the head end of a lance, i don't see in its design any such purpose ... if you don't mind

.

Victrix · 25th January 2021, 08:05 PM

Pike heads, 1500s. Armour piercing.

Congratulations. They are beautiful!

cel7 · 25th January 2021, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix

Pike heads, 1500s. Armour piercing.

Congratulations. They are beautiful!

Thank you, very interesting.

M ELEY · 26th January 2021, 02:24 AM

Victrix, thank you for that pic of armor-piercing heads. I was always under the assumption that this style of head was very late in pike history. Naval pikes with 4 sides appeared around 1800, whereas their diamond-headed and leaf-shaped patterns preceded this form, but this is apparently ONLY in naval pikes. Interesting!

Philip · 26th January 2021, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cel7

I'm not sure about that. The decorated thickening in the center looks like something that you would find on a wild bore hunting spear, for preventing entering to deep. But I am not sure either.

The globose thickening at the base of the points will not serve as stops for a boar-spear head. These things will keep going on in and Hogzilla will be on top of the hunter in a flash. Take a look at these two Germanic / Central European boar spears. A crosspiece in the form of a piece of deer antler lashed on with thick rawhide is the blade stop. Sometimes the stop is a short metal bar attached with a rivet. Southern European and English spears tend to have metal crossguards below the blades, forged integrally with either the base of the blade or to the solid shank between it and the socket.

fernando · 27th January 2021, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

... A crosspiece in the form of a piece of deer antler lashed on with thick rawhide is the blade stop...

Indeed Filipe, a system as old as already in use in Classical Antiquity; Silo Italico (1st-2nd century) already made mention of it in his poems.

(depictions dated XIV and XVI centuries).

.

Richard G · 27th January 2021, 06:38 PM

The general consensus is these are pike heads, and I'm not going to disagree, but I will explain why I thought there is a possibility they may be shoes.
1, They are square sided; not unknown, but unusual for a pike head.
2, The spike, or bodkin, is only 10cm long. This may be sufficient to penetrate a thick coat and armour, but only just. Bearing in mind pikes were a defence against cavalry, most horses could probably survive a jab of only 10cms, especially if protected.
3, Further, there is a possibility that if the ball is shoved through anything like mail or armour it would prove a hindrance in disengaging the weapon.
4, There seems to be a 'flow' in most pikes, even those with a ball or ring, from the tip through to the shaft which is missing here. The spike stops abruptly at the ball and there is a definite 'shoulder' where it meets the shaft.
5, If they are shoes they do not have to be from a pike. They could be the shoes of, say, a halberd or spontoon which was pre-eminently a parade weapon.
6, I cannot explain what seems to be unnecessarily long langets for a shoe.
Best wishes
Richard

25th January 2021, 08:05 PM	#5
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 763	Pike heads, 1500s. Armour piercing. Congratulations. They are beautiful! Attached Images Last edited by Victrix; 25th January 2021 at 08:19 PM.

25th January 2021, 04:20 PM	#1
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 415	OK, I'll bite. They look to me as if they could be the shoe of a lance or pike, rather than the head. And I can't see a reason why they shouldn't be old. Regards Richard

25th January 2021, 04:52 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Do you think so, Ricard ? ... with such (would be) long langets ?

25th January 2021, 05:35 PM	#3
cel7 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 162	I'm not sure about that. The decorated thickening in the center looks like something that you would find on a wild bore hunting spear, for preventing entering to deep. But I am not sure either.

25th January 2021, 05:41 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	This being the head end of a lance, i don't see in its design any such purpose ... if you don't mind .

26th January 2021, 02:24 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,206	Victrix, thank you for that pic of armor-piercing heads. I was always under the assumption that this style of head was very late in pike history. Naval pikes with 4 sides appeared around 1800, whereas their diamond-headed and leaf-shaped patterns preceded this form, but this is apparently ONLY in naval pikes. Interesting!

27th January 2021, 06:38 PM	#10
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 415	The general consensus is these are pike heads, and I'm not going to disagree, but I will explain why I thought there is a possibility they may be shoes. 1, They are square sided; not unknown, but unusual for a pike head. 2, The spike, or bodkin, is only 10cm long. This may be sufficient to penetrate a thick coat and armour, but only just. Bearing in mind pikes were a defence against cavalry, most horses could probably survive a jab of only 10cms, especially if protected. 3, Further, there is a possibility that if the ball is shoved through anything like mail or armour it would prove a hindrance in disengaging the weapon. 4, There seems to be a 'flow' in most pikes, even those with a ball or ring, from the tip through to the shaft which is missing here. The spike stops abruptly at the ball and there is a definite 'shoulder' where it meets the shaft. 5, If they are shoes they do not have to be from a pike. They could be the shoes of, say, a halberd or spontoon which was pre-eminently a parade weapon. 6, I cannot explain what seems to be unnecessarily long langets for a shoe. Best wishes Richard