Kindjal? for ID please

Kubur · 22nd January 2021, 11:04 PM

The two dates on the scabbard are the same
1208 or 1258
This kindjal is not from the 18th c so I vote for 1258, eg. 1842 AD.

Interested Party · 22nd January 2021, 11:50 PM

In the picture of the back of the hilt, is that a twist core in the fuller?

Oliver Pinchot · 23rd January 2021, 12:05 AM

This is Circassian work. The Circassian diaspora brought ~ 700,000 to the Ottoman Empire. Many served in the military, they were often stationed in the Ottoman provinces of Syria, Iraq and Egypt. So, very good old Circassian weapons often show up there.

Oliver Pinchot · 23rd January 2021, 12:11 AM

It would be interesting to know why Kubur says this kindjal is not from the 18th century.

kronckew · 23rd January 2021, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

It would be interesting to know why Kubur says this kindjal is not from the 18th century.

Date is clearly 1208 hjiri which is Gregorian 1794.

Kubur · 23rd January 2021, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

It would be interesting to know why Kubur says this kindjal is not from the 18th century.

Yes, me too, I would be interested to know why!

In fact, I will happily change my mind if you have some 18th c similar examples

Ren Ren · 23rd January 2021, 05:31 PM

Being a pessimist is great! Each time you are either right or pleasantly surprised.

Tracy · 25th January 2021, 11:21 PM

I have since found a 1972 letter from the Royal Ontario Museum that dated it at 1793 and translated the inscription to likely be the name of the craftsman: Sadr al-Din ibn Mustafa. Fayum is also mentioned, possibly meaning that is was made in the Fayum District of Egypt. I've attached closer photos of the fuller on both sides and there are groves parallel to the fuller but otherwise nothing that looks like twist core. Thanks for introducing me to these new terms! My mother also mentioned that my grandfather told her he was given the sword from a friend (possible relative?) back in the 30's when they were both having fun with motorcycles and archeological digs. The friend was a rather famous fellow who spent a great deal of time in Egypt during WWI, and the sword had been presented to him. That's all I know for now. Thanks for your replies and more comments are very welcome!

25th January 2021, 11:21 PM	#8
Tracy Member Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: British Columbia Posts: 4	I have since found a 1972 letter from the Royal Ontario Museum that dated it at 1793 and translated the inscription to likely be the name of the craftsman: Sadr al-Din ibn Mustafa. Fayum is also mentioned, possibly meaning that is was made in the Fayum District of Egypt. I've attached closer photos of the fuller on both sides and there are groves parallel to the fuller but otherwise nothing that looks like twist core. Thanks for introducing me to these new terms! My mother also mentioned that my grandfather told her he was given the sword from a friend (possible relative?) back in the 30's when they were both having fun with motorcycles and archeological digs. The friend was a rather famous fellow who spent a great deal of time in Egypt during WWI, and the sword had been presented to him. That's all I know for now. Thanks for your replies and more comments are very welcome! Attached Images

22nd January 2021, 11:04 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	The two dates on the scabbard are the same 1208 or 1258 This kindjal is not from the 18th c so I vote for 1258, eg. 1842 AD.

22nd January 2021, 11:50 PM	#2
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 505	In the picture of the back of the hilt, is that a twist core in the fuller?

23rd January 2021, 12:05 AM	#3
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 468	This is Circassian work. The Circassian diaspora brought ~ 700,000 to the Ottoman Empire. Many served in the military, they were often stationed in the Ottoman provinces of Syria, Iraq and Egypt. So, very good old Circassian weapons often show up there.

23rd January 2021, 12:11 AM	#4
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 468	It would be interesting to know why Kubur says this kindjal is not from the 18th century.

23rd January 2021, 05:31 PM	#7
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 379	Being a pessimist is great! Each time you are either right or pleasantly surprised.