Viking Sword

Reventlov · 6th January 2021, 05:37 AM

This sword makes the rounds of the forums and image boards regularly - I very much doubt its authenticity, and I am not the first to say so.

I think the ornamentation gives the game away, and the analysis offered by the auction house is completely off base. Firstly, the ornamentation on the "Hiltepreht" swords mentioned (and several other similar ones) is a Frankish-style floral/vegetal design that does not resemble this sword in any way. All of these are of Petersen's type K and probably of the 9th century. The sword from Hedeby is of the same type; its ornament is different but executed with the same technique: the design is engraved in dark niello (I assume) on a plated silver/bronze/etc surface. This is completely different from the sword in question.

The comparison to the sword from the River Bann is also dubious; its ornament consists of three comparatively simple palmettes, also it has a brazil-nut pommel and is probably of the 11th century. The broken blade from Nijmegen (illustrated by Oakeshott) cannot be precisely dated, but its design shows far greater affinity with the Bann palmettes and certain other inscriptions than the ornamentation of this sword.

The hilt ornamentation we see here is instead a poor imitation of designs that do appear particularly on hilts of Petersen's types O and R, and can be associated with the 10th century Mammen style of Scandinavian artwork. The intricacy and quality of the designs on every genuine weapon decorated in this manner far surpass what can be seen on this sword and others that have appeared at auction in recent years. For comparison, I attach an example excavated in Norway, and the namesake axe from Mammen in Denmark.

Iain · 6th January 2021, 08:59 AM

Wasn't this a timeline auctions piece?

David · 6th January 2021, 07:05 PM

Thanks for the responses so far. They support some of my own suspicions about it. The motifs definitely do not seem to fit the purported time and place.
Ian, i am unfamiliar with Timeline Auctions. But as i mentioned in my earlier post i believe this sword was sold some tome ago by Peter Finer. I will not post any links to his website so as not to break forum rules, but he seems to be a rather well established dealer in fine antique arm & amour in London. The description i posted was credited to him. As far as i know he has a rather good reputation, however, such things are often meaningless in these cases.

Iain · 6th January 2021, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for the responses so far. They support some of my own suspicions about it. The motifs definitely do not seem to fit the purported time and place.
Ian, i am unfamiliar with Timeline Auctions. But as i mentioned in my earlier post i believe this sword was sold some tome ago by Peter Finer. I will not post any links to his website so as not to break forum rules, but he seems to be a rather well established dealer in fine antique arm & amour in London. The description i posted was credited to him. As far as i know he has a rather good reputation, however, such things are often meaningless in these cases.

Fair enough, the photography merely seemed familiar. I won't comment further other than the inlay rings many alarm bells already detailed nicely by Reventlov.

ariel · 7th January 2021, 03:34 AM

I am surprised at the intactness of inlay on the background of rather deep rust and cavitation.

Victrix · 7th January 2021, 10:44 AM

As a Swede I don’t particularly recognize the decorations as traditional viking style. Look more Celtic to me. Could it be an Irish iron age sword? Also looks like some kind of strange baton depicted in the decoration on one side?

Although not very knowledgeable on viking swords I understand that kind of pommel is more associated with Frankish swords. I was also surprised that the decorative elements survived so much better than the underlying material although silver and gold don’t corrode like iron.

ariel · 7th January 2021, 04:21 PM

It is not so much a matter of corrosion of the silver and gold: it is the matter of rusted steel.

With this (fully expected) condition of the blade, the channels into which the wire is hammered get destroyed and the wire just falls out.

Not a single part of the inlay is lost here despite pronounced rusting. IMHO, this is very suspicious for a relatively recent application of the inlay in carefully chosen sections.

Several Forumites here have already commented on the incompatibility of the sword itself with its decoration. This, IMHO, further strengthens the suspicion of a later ( recent?) applications of the lnlay by a not very informed engraver.

Similar situation is seen very often on Indian blades, only there it is more often koftgari instead of deeper inlay: intact koft on the background of pockmarked steel underneath.

Kirill Rivkin, in his book about “ Eastern sword” mentioned that as the evidence of “prettifying” the blade for charging a higher price.

My antennae are twitching:-)

6th January 2021, 05:37 AM	#1
Reventlov Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 138	This sword makes the rounds of the forums and image boards regularly - I very much doubt its authenticity, and I am not the first to say so. I think the ornamentation gives the game away, and the analysis offered by the auction house is completely off base. Firstly, the ornamentation on the "Hiltepreht" swords mentioned (and several other similar ones) is a Frankish-style floral/vegetal design that does not resemble this sword in any way. All of these are of Petersen's type K and probably of the 9th century. The sword from Hedeby is of the same type; its ornament is different but executed with the same technique: the design is engraved in dark niello (I assume) on a plated silver/bronze/etc surface. This is completely different from the sword in question. The comparison to the sword from the River Bann is also dubious; its ornament consists of three comparatively simple palmettes, also it has a brazil-nut pommel and is probably of the 11th century. The broken blade from Nijmegen (illustrated by Oakeshott) cannot be precisely dated, but its design shows far greater affinity with the Bann palmettes and certain other inscriptions than the ornamentation of this sword. The hilt ornamentation we see here is instead a poor imitation of designs that do appear particularly on hilts of Petersen's types O and R, and can be associated with the 10th century Mammen style of Scandinavian artwork. The intricacy and quality of the designs on every genuine weapon decorated in this manner far surpass what can be seen on this sword and others that have appeared at auction in recent years. For comparison, I attach an example excavated in Norway, and the namesake axe from Mammen in Denmark. Attached Images

6th January 2021, 08:59 AM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,719	Wasn't this a timeline auctions piece?

6th January 2021, 07:05 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	Thanks for the responses so far. They support some of my own suspicions about it. The motifs definitely do not seem to fit the purported time and place. Ian, i am unfamiliar with Timeline Auctions. But as i mentioned in my earlier post i believe this sword was sold some tome ago by Peter Finer. I will not post any links to his website so as not to break forum rules, but he seems to be a rather well established dealer in fine antique arm & amour in London. The description i posted was credited to him. As far as i know he has a rather good reputation, however, such things are often meaningless in these cases.

7th January 2021, 03:34 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am surprised at the intactness of inlay on the background of rather deep rust and cavitation.

7th January 2021, 10:44 AM	#6
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	As a Swede I don’t particularly recognize the decorations as traditional viking style. Look more Celtic to me. Could it be an Irish iron age sword? Also looks like some kind of strange baton depicted in the decoration on one side? Although not very knowledgeable on viking swords I understand that kind of pommel is more associated with Frankish swords. I was also surprised that the decorative elements survived so much better than the underlying material although silver and gold don’t corrode like iron.

7th January 2021, 04:21 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is not so much a matter of corrosion of the silver and gold: it is the matter of rusted steel. With this (fully expected) condition of the blade, the channels into which the wire is hammered get destroyed and the wire just falls out. Not a single part of the inlay is lost here despite pronounced rusting. IMHO, this is very suspicious for a relatively recent application of the inlay in carefully chosen sections. Several Forumites here have already commented on the incompatibility of the sword itself with its decoration. This, IMHO, further strengthens the suspicion of a later ( recent?) applications of the lnlay by a not very informed engraver. Similar situation is seen very often on Indian blades, only there it is more often koftgari instead of deeper inlay: intact koft on the background of pockmarked steel underneath. Kirill Rivkin, in his book about “ Eastern sword” mentioned that as the evidence of “prettifying” the blade for charging a higher price. My antennae are twitching:-)