Officers sword pattern 1796 for Light Cavalry?

Dmitry · 18th December 2020, 03:04 PM

You are right about the appearance of it, with blade in the scabbard it's a 1796 pattern light cavalry saber. The blade itself is another story- it appears to be a custom job. I would be curious if etching one spot reveals the Damascus pattern. Could be a sword bladed for an officer serving in India.

Jim McDougall · 18th December 2020, 05:02 PM

Very nice example (especially so to see the hanging straps still on the scabbard rings) and most definitely an officers M1796 from early 19th c.
I have one of these not often seen sabers which I acquired in London in the 70s, and is not nearly in as nice condition.

The 'stepped' back has always suggested Indian influence (this feature often seen on Indian tulwars of latter 18th c.) so I have been inclined to think of these as being for East India Co. officers.
East India company officers were supplied by certain outfitters usually in London and the blades were typically from Solingen.

The 10th Hussars had unique sabers which were in a small number ordered in 1810, and these blades, Solingen blade which had the distinct 'step'.

Wilkinson (1967, "Swords and Daggers") had one of these shown and noted the curious 'beak' . Pic attached.

While the 1796 patterns for officers had of course basic similarity to troopers sabers, the quality, variation and profoundly the fish skin grips were indicators.

fernando · 18th December 2020, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...Very nice example Dmitry...

Dmitry ?

Jim McDougall · 18th December 2020, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Dmitry ?

oops

Bryce · 18th December 2020, 08:52 PM

G'day Ulrik,
It is a 1796 light cavalry officer sword which is very much in the style of the sword cutler John Prosser. We will call it light cavalry, but the truth is it could also have been carried by an infantry or artillery officer as well. It closely resembles the regimental pattern sabre of the 19th light dragoons, but without any markings, we can't attribute it to that regiment. The blade will be British made and is also commonly found on British, mameluke hilted sabres as well. Here is a similar unmarked example in my collection, which differs from yours in that it has a different style hilt. This style hilt was also commonly used by John Prosser. These blades are usually around 79-80cm. How long is yours?
Cheers,
Bryce

Jim McDougall · 18th December 2020, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryce

G'day Ulrik,
It is a 1796 light cavalry officer sword which is very much in the style of the sword cutler John Prosser. We will call it light cavalry, but the truth is it could also have been carried by an infantry or artillery officer as well. It closely resembles the regimental pattern sabre of the 19th light dragoons, but without any markings, we can't attribute it to that regiment. The blade will be British made and is also commonly found on British, mameluke hilted sabres as well. Here is a similar unmarked example in my collection, which differs from yours in that it has a different style hilt. This style hilt was also commonly used by John Prosser. These blades are usually around 79-80cm. How long is yours?
Cheers,
Bryce

Hi Bryce,
With the 10th Hussar special pattern sabers in the order for officers 1810, these were also mounted by Prosser, and the blades were noted as Solingen with the 'stepped tip' and marked with the sun,moon etc. motif. If British makers were making these blades, which might they be? We Know Gill was marking his blades, as were Osborn and Wooley in this time.

It seems like there was a degree of 'experimentation' with blade profiles in this time, I know with Osborn as he developed the 1796's. and the pipebacks, yelmans and even it seems a yataghan type blade was present on at least one I've seen.

Best
Jim

Bryce · 19th December 2020, 12:54 AM

G'day Jim,
You are right that the original batch of 10th Hussars' swords used Solingen blades like my example below. Later examples had the flat, unfullered blades like the sword in this thread. In his earlier period Prosser used imported Solingen blades where a fullered blade was required, but I think the unfullered blades must have been made by him. You can find early examples which have Prosser etched on the blade.
Cheers,
Bryce

daggpil · 20th December 2020, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryce

G'day Ulrik,
It is a 1796 light cavalry officer sword which is very much in the style of the sword cutler John Prosser. We will call it light cavalry, but the truth is it could also have been carried by an infantry or artillery officer as well. It closely resembles the regimental pattern sabre of the 19th light dragoons, but without any markings, we can't attribute it to that regiment. The blade will be British made and is also commonly found on British, mameluke hilted sabres as well. Here is a similar unmarked example in my collection, which differs from yours in that it has a different style hilt. This style hilt was also commonly used by John Prosser. These blades are usually around 79-80cm. How long is yours?
Cheers,
Bryce

Hi, it measures 79 cm! Br/Ulrik

jezcott · 21st December 2020, 11:30 AM

My P1796 LC officer's sabre has a very similar design of hilt to yours, though a much more standard 1796 blade. The blade on mine is by JJ Runkel Solingen, and the presence of post 1801 Royal Arms dates the sabre from 1801-7.

I think the Royal Arms also suggest the owner was a regular officer rather than EIC.

18th December 2020, 05:02 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Very nice example (especially so to see the hanging straps still on the scabbard rings) and most definitely an officers M1796 from early 19th c. I have one of these not often seen sabers which I acquired in London in the 70s, and is not nearly in as nice condition. The 'stepped' back has always suggested Indian influence (this feature often seen on Indian tulwars of latter 18th c.) so I have been inclined to think of these as being for East India Co. officers. East India company officers were supplied by certain outfitters usually in London and the blades were typically from Solingen. The 10th Hussars had unique sabers which were in a small number ordered in 1810, and these blades, Solingen blade which had the distinct 'step'. Wilkinson (1967, "Swords and Daggers") had one of these shown and noted the curious 'beak' . Pic attached. While the 1796 patterns for officers had of course basic similarity to troopers sabers, the quality, variation and profoundly the fish skin grips were indicators. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 18th December 2020 at 06:23 PM.

18th December 2020, 08:52 PM	#5
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 189	G'day Ulrik, It is a 1796 light cavalry officer sword which is very much in the style of the sword cutler John Prosser. We will call it light cavalry, but the truth is it could also have been carried by an infantry or artillery officer as well. It closely resembles the regimental pattern sabre of the 19th light dragoons, but without any markings, we can't attribute it to that regiment. The blade will be British made and is also commonly found on British, mameluke hilted sabres as well. Here is a similar unmarked example in my collection, which differs from yours in that it has a different style hilt. This style hilt was also commonly used by John Prosser. These blades are usually around 79-80cm. How long is yours? Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

19th December 2020, 12:54 AM	#7
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 189	G'day Jim, You are right that the original batch of 10th Hussars' swords used Solingen blades like my example below. Later examples had the flat, unfullered blades like the sword in this thread. In his earlier period Prosser used imported Solingen blades where a fullered blade was required, but I think the unfullered blades must have been made by him. You can find early examples which have Prosser etched on the blade. Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

21st December 2020, 11:30 AM	#9
jezcott Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 12	My P1796 LC officer's sabre has a very similar design of hilt to yours, though a much more standard 1796 blade. The blade on mine is by JJ Runkel Solingen, and the presence of post 1801 Royal Arms dates the sabre from 1801-7. I think the Royal Arms also suggest the owner was a regular officer rather than EIC. Attached Images

18th December 2020, 03:04 PM	#1
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	You are right about the appearance of it, with blade in the scabbard it's a 1796 pattern light cavalry saber. The blade itself is another story- it appears to be a custom job. I would be curious if etching one spot reveals the Damascus pattern. Could be a sword bladed for an officer serving in India.