Chinese daggers - more colourful as christmas trees

[Gonzoadler]

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[mahratt]

These are souvenirs made in the 20th century.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by mahratt

These are souvenirs made in the 20th century.

Exactly!

Souvenirs for tourists. Some of them are even marked with the famous "MADE IN CHINA" logo.

[Gonzoadler]

Thanks for the first answers.
I don´t think that these daggers are modern souvenirs, but of course it is possible that they are old ones. Most auction houses date them around 1900. Also they are really rare, completely handmade, well made and not cheap:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...se-mounted-dag

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...ger-with-stand

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...jeweled-dagger

Not one of them is marked with "made in China". Also only precious materials were used. Actually the German auction house Thies sells a bigger similar piece:

(edited: links to live auctions is strictly forbidden on our forums)

Of course there are some modern souvenirs in the same style, but they are often only silver plated and the quality is not really comparable:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...oise-medallion

Of course my daggers are looking a little bit kitschy, but this is not uncommon for Chinese antiques. I hope it is OK that I linked some auctions.
Maybe more opinions regarding my two pieces?

Regards

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Gonzoadler

Thanks for the first answers.
I don´t think that these daggers are modern souvenirs, but of course it is possible that they are old ones. Most auction houses date them around 1900. Also they are really rare, completely handmade, well made and not cheap:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...se-mounted-dag

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...ger-with-stand

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...jeweled-dagger

Not one of them is marked with "made in China". Also only precious materials were used. Actually the German auction house Thies sells a bigger similar piece:

(LINKS TO LIVE AUCTIONS PROHIBITED)

Of course there are some modern souvenirs in the same style, but they are often only silver plated and the quality is not really comparable:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...oise-medallion

Of course my daggers are looking a little bit kitschy, but this is not uncommon for Chinese antiques. I hope it is OK that I linked some auctions.
Maybe more opinions regarding my two pieces?

Regards

1. The task of the auction house is to sell the item
2. Not all auction houses have good specialists ...

I'm sorry, but these are not antiques. Vintage at best ...

[Gonzoadler]

But the last one from Thiele auctions is with provenance.
Of course I can state that they lie, but I don't think so.
Who should buy such a souvenir an who should sell it?
It's laborous and expensive to produce.
Please, show me pictures of sale advertisements or from a modern market with these daggers, any evidence.
Or explain your answere, why you think so?
"It's new, period." is not really convincing.

[mariusgmioc]

Everybody is entitled to his/her own opinion and we all believe what we want to believe.

I have owned a couple of such daggers and I am pretty sure they are all 20th century decorative pieces. And yes, some of them are well made and decorated with semi-precious stones that have been used as gifts/presents. In fact, that is their main purpose: to be used as gifts, presents, souvenirs.

Regarding the description from the auction houses, please note that almost all auction houses, in their terms and conditions of sales, have disclaimers that absolve them of any discrepancies/errors/misinterpretations in the descriptions of the lots sold. So they basically can describe any lot as they please, without bearing any responsibility for the accuracy of description... and they describe their lots to fetch higher prices.

Prince Tommaso di Savoia died in 1931 so if one dagger comes from his collection, it doesn't mean it is 19th century.

In conclusion, I fully agree with Mahratt.

PS: Here is the one it was in my possesion, then sold it a long time ago. It was solid silver with semi-precious stones and exceptional workmanhip... and marked "MADE IN CHINA"...

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Gonzoadler

But the last one from Thiele auctions is with provenance.
Of course I can state that they lie, but I don't think so.
Who should buy such a souvenir an who should sell it?
It's laborous and expensive to produce.
Please, show me pictures of sale advertisements or from a modern market with these daggers, any evidence.
Or explain your answere, why you think so?
"It's new, period." is not really convincing.

Everything has already been written by colleagues on the forum

[David]

Originally Posted by Gonzoadler

I hope it is OK that I linked some auctions.
Maybe more opinions regarding my two pieces?

Just to clarify your question about links to auctions. From my viewing most of these auctions seemed to be already over. But one of them was still active until December 12th and i deleted that link since posting live auctions does indeed violate the rules of these forums.
As for the remaining links, i will leave them for the Ethno Mods to decide. The one thing i will say about posting such links is that they will become absolutely useless to future discussion is just a short period of time because the online auction house will delete them soon and the links will then become dead ends. Therefore we always encourage people to post example images directly to these pages so that they will remain in our archives. (Of course, you still should not upload images here if the auctions you take them from are still active. )