British pipeback parabolic blade saber c. 1801

Will M · 7th December 2020, 03:17 AM

I did see Matts video on these after posting here. I could not find any cutting videos with this blade type.
The Royal Armouries have some good swords but I find many listed have no photos, typically described as the ones I would like to see.

Bryce · 7th December 2020, 04:08 AM

G'day Jim,
That is a very interesting sword. I haven't come across that combination of canted hilt and pipe-back blade before. Normally these canted hilts are associated with flat, unfullered blades. I have two of these, one maker marked to a tailor Maullin and Co and owned by an artillery officer and the other brass hilted example by Osborn and Gunby. Both of mine have 69cm blades. How long is your blade?

I have done a bit of research on the earliest British pipe-back swords and the earliest dateable ones I have found are circa 1798-1800. By 1815 they were very common for officer's swords. The earlier ones tend to have very fine cutting edges. Looking at your photos, your example appears to have a very pronounced secondary bevel on the cutting edge, indicating a heavier blade.? To me this probably dates it closer to 1820 than 1810.

I think this style of sword could have been carried by an officer of just about any branch of the army ie infantry, cavalry or artillery.

Cheers,
Bryce

Norman McCormick · 7th December 2020, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryce

G'day Jim,

I think this style of sword could have been carried by an officer of just about any branch of the army ie infantry, cavalry or artillery.

Cheers,
Bryce

Hi,
I would suspect there is indeed merit in this. Styles seem to have been somewhat fluid in some cases although the more flamboyant curves appear to be particularly associated with those blades attributed to 'flank officers'.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Jim, it might be helpful to know the length of the blade.

Jim McDougall · 7th December 2020, 04:03 PM

Thank you guys for these great entries and observations! I apologize for not providing dimensions in this, I dont have the sword at the moment but will get those details asap.

As noted, it does appear the 'pipeback' did become more popularly known in 1820s and notably present on many of the 1820s period officers swords.
I think, as Norman has just noted, the 'officer' denominator illustrates the key factor that officers tended to traverse various branches of service and units.
Many officers might be in cavalry unit at one time, then transfer into infantry or artillery with trading of commissions.

In most references I have seen, it does seem that officers were not expected to participate in regular combat activity, but primarily to direct forces. Obviously, this seems unlikely to be a standard as combat circumstances could render it necessary to defend oneself as required.

I am not sure the interference of the ramrod back preventing a through cut is a deterrent for its viability as a blade feature. The typical cut with these curved blades is more 'draw cut' I would think rather than the chopping action of the heavier and hatchet point blades of the more common 1796 blades.

I personally agree with the observation this is likely an early example of a saber among 'test' patterns c. 1800, and quite possibly even a prototype using the ramrod back. As I had mentioned, Osborn was using various types of swords, including tulwars and shamshirs as test models, among others.

Jim McDougall · 7th December 2020, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryce

G'day Jim,
That is a very interesting sword. I haven't come across that combination of canted hilt and pipe-back blade before. Normally these canted hilts are associated with flat, unfullered blades. I have two of these, one maker marked to a tailor Maullin and Co and owned by an artillery officer and the other brass hilted example by Osborn and Gunby. Both of mine have 69cm blades. How long is your blade?

I have done a bit of research on the earliest British pipe-back swords and the earliest dateable ones I have found are circa 1798-1800. By 1815 they were very common for officer's swords. The earlier ones tend to have very fine cutting edges. Looking at your photos, your example appears to have a very pronounced secondary bevel on the cutting edge, indicating a heavier blade.? To me this probably dates it closer to 1820 than 1810.

I think this style of sword could have been carried by an officer of just about any branch of the army ie infantry, cavalry or artillery.

Cheers,
Bryce

These are great examples Bryce. It seems the hilts look slightly canted, and again, something to 'flank' company favor it seems. I am unclear on exactly what the 'flank' company designation entails, but it seems that on the M1803 examples there is a horn device which is used to identify them as such.
Perhaps this might explain the purpose of these units?

Bryce · 7th December 2020, 10:02 PM

G'day Jim,
The term "flank company" refers to the Grenadier and Light companies of a British infantry regiment. The Grenadier company, symbolised by a flaming grenade was the largest (and generally made up of the tallest men) company in the regiment. It was used to head up assaults etc. The Light company was symbolised by the strung bugle. Its main task was skirmishing. Traditionally they were arrayed on each flank of the main battle line of the regiment, hence the term. Often the flank companies of several regiments were banded together and used for special missions during campaigns.
Cheers,
Bryce

Bryce · 9th December 2020, 12:47 AM

Here is a British pipe-back sabre circa 1816. It has a heavier blade like Jim's although much straighter. It was made by GS Reddell and is marked to the 7th Hussars, with the initials CJH for Charles John Hill who joined in 1816.
Cheers,
Bryce

Bryce · 9th December 2020, 12:55 AM

To show what I mean by a heavier blade compared to one with a fine edge, here is the sword of Richard Beauchamp of the 16th LD circa 1811. Compare the fineness of the blade edge to the 7th Hussars sword below.
Cheers,
Bryce

Jim McDougall · 9th December 2020, 02:45 PM

Thank you Bryce for the excellent synopsis describing the functions of these units, that helps a great deal in understanding better the pragmatic possibilities possibly considered in the character of these sabers.

Thank you as well for adding other examples of the pipeback, which indeed seem to have been known and used in degree on many officers swords around turn of the century. It is interesting to note the 'step' expanding the tip and incorporated into the 'pipe or rod' on the blade back.
These are of course similar to the 'yelman' on many Islamic sabers and often present on East European examples.

I was once told by a Polish fencing master of arms who deeply studied the history of these sabers, that they often colloquially termed this feature on the blades, 'the feather', as it's purpose was to add weight and impetus to the cut in the momentum.

Again, it would seem that the 'rod' would similarly add weight to the strength of the blow and in a sweeping or slashing cut would not impair it, and bolster the intregrity of the blade otherwise as well.

7th December 2020, 04:08 AM	#2
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 195	G'day Jim, That is a very interesting sword. I haven't come across that combination of canted hilt and pipe-back blade before. Normally these canted hilts are associated with flat, unfullered blades. I have two of these, one maker marked to a tailor Maullin and Co and owned by an artillery officer and the other brass hilted example by Osborn and Gunby. Both of mine have 69cm blades. How long is your blade? I have done a bit of research on the earliest British pipe-back swords and the earliest dateable ones I have found are circa 1798-1800. By 1815 they were very common for officer's swords. The earlier ones tend to have very fine cutting edges. Looking at your photos, your example appears to have a very pronounced secondary bevel on the cutting edge, indicating a heavier blade.? To me this probably dates it closer to 1820 than 1810. I think this style of sword could have been carried by an officer of just about any branch of the army ie infantry, cavalry or artillery. Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

7th December 2020, 10:02 PM	#6
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 195	G'day Jim, The term "flank company" refers to the Grenadier and Light companies of a British infantry regiment. The Grenadier company, symbolised by a flaming grenade was the largest (and generally made up of the tallest men) company in the regiment. It was used to head up assaults etc. The Light company was symbolised by the strung bugle. Its main task was skirmishing. Traditionally they were arrayed on each flank of the main battle line of the regiment, hence the term. Often the flank companies of several regiments were banded together and used for special missions during campaigns. Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

9th December 2020, 12:47 AM	#7
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 195	Here is a British pipe-back sabre circa 1816. It has a heavier blade like Jim's although much straighter. It was made by GS Reddell and is marked to the 7th Hussars, with the initials CJH for Charles John Hill who joined in 1816. Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

9th December 2020, 12:55 AM	#8
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 195	To show what I mean by a heavier blade compared to one with a fine edge, here is the sword of Richard Beauchamp of the 16th LD circa 1811. Compare the fineness of the blade edge to the 7th Hussars sword below. Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

7th December 2020, 03:17 AM	#1
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 406	I did see Matts video on these after posting here. I could not find any cutting videos with this blade type. The Royal Armouries have some good swords but I find many listed have no photos, typically described as the ones I would like to see.

7th December 2020, 04:03 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Thank you guys for these great entries and observations! I apologize for not providing dimensions in this, I dont have the sword at the moment but will get those details asap. As noted, it does appear the 'pipeback' did become more popularly known in 1820s and notably present on many of the 1820s period officers swords. I think, as Norman has just noted, the 'officer' denominator illustrates the key factor that officers tended to traverse various branches of service and units. Many officers might be in cavalry unit at one time, then transfer into infantry or artillery with trading of commissions. In most references I have seen, it does seem that officers were not expected to participate in regular combat activity, but primarily to direct forces. Obviously, this seems unlikely to be a standard as combat circumstances could render it necessary to defend oneself as required. I am not sure the interference of the ramrod back preventing a through cut is a deterrent for its viability as a blade feature. The typical cut with these curved blades is more 'draw cut' I would think rather than the chopping action of the heavier and hatchet point blades of the more common 1796 blades. I personally agree with the observation this is likely an early example of a saber among 'test' patterns c. 1800, and quite possibly even a prototype using the ramrod back. As I had mentioned, Osborn was using various types of swords, including tulwars and shamshirs as test models, among others.

9th December 2020, 02:45 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Thank you Bryce for the excellent synopsis describing the functions of these units, that helps a great deal in understanding better the pragmatic possibilities possibly considered in the character of these sabers. Thank you as well for adding other examples of the pipeback, which indeed seem to have been known and used in degree on many officers swords around turn of the century. It is interesting to note the 'step' expanding the tip and incorporated into the 'pipe or rod' on the blade back. These are of course similar to the 'yelman' on many Islamic sabers and often present on East European examples. I was once told by a Polish fencing master of arms who deeply studied the history of these sabers, that they often colloquially termed this feature on the blades, 'the feather', as it's purpose was to add weight and impetus to the cut in the momentum. Again, it would seem that the 'rod' would similarly add weight to the strength of the blow and in a sweeping or slashing cut would not impair it, and bolster the intregrity of the blade otherwise as well.