A Balinese Keris for Analysis

Jean · 21st September 2020, 05:24 PM

Hello Charles,
Attached is a Madurese kris estimated from the early 20th century with a somewhat similar type of thick hilt.
Regards

CharlesS · 21st September 2020, 05:38 PM

Thanks Jean. Yes a similar( and lovely) hilt, but the size is much smaller than on that Balinese keris. It's easy to tell by the way it sits on the mendek.

Jean · 21st September 2020, 05:57 PM

Hi Charles,
Pics of a Madurese hilt more similar to yours, its height is 10 cm. The balinese selut is definitely misplaced IMO. From my experience these pieces are relatively recent (mid 20th century).
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 21st September 2020, 10:17 PM

Charles, I suggest that you remove the hilt from the keris.

I believe that you will find that this hilt is sitting on top of the selut, not fitted to the selut.

Any selut is effectively a ferrule, it is supposed to fit around the base of the hilt, and was originally used to prevent the hilt splitting. On the keris under discussion I believe you will find that the hilt simply sits on top of the selut.

The hilt itself is an East Javanese style, it can also be found in Madura, and Madura itself is a part of East Jawa, and it can be found along the North Coast of Jawa, but only a small distance to the west of Surabaya, whereas it can be found anywhere east of Surabaya. There can be no question at all that this is an East Javanese hilt.

We can forget about the size of the hilt being any sort of indicator, size is totally irrelevant in this context.

There is at least one hypothetical, but I will not address that until after the hilt has been removed from the keris.

CharlesS · 22nd September 2020, 12:36 AM

The hilt is, indeed, sitting centered on the selut. So, you guys’ observations of it not being properly set seem to be correct. If I wanted to get a new hilt for the good blade, what kind of hilt should I get that would most correctly go with the scabbard???

A. G. Maisey · 22nd September 2020, 02:43 AM

Charles, this is a jamprahan sarung, in olden times, say, pre-puputan, this style of sarung was normally worn by very religious people, not necessarily priests or preachers, but usually lay people who took their religious duties very seriously.

It was usually paired with a kusia hilt. The kusia hilt style is rather rare, and these days the kusia and the kocet-kocetan style are more or less considered to be the same, which they are not quite, but the difference is very slight, off the top of my head I forget exactly what the difference between the two is, something to do with the face I think, but I'd need to look it up.

I'd say either a kusia or kocet-kocetan hilt would be the hilt of choice for this sarung.

However, since this sarung is a rather recent creation I am relatively certain that it was not intended for the original purpose of this style, so an ordinary bobondolan style that was inlet to accept the selut would also be just fine.

Jean · 22nd September 2020, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Charles, this is a jamprahan sarung, in olden times, say, pre-puputan, this style of sarung was normally worn by very religious people, not necessarily priests or preachers, but usually lay people who took their religious duties very seriously.

It was usually paired with a kusia hilt. The kusia hilt style is rather rare, and these days the kusia and the kocet-kocetan style are more or less considered to be the same, which they are not quite, but the difference is very slight, off the top of my head I forget exactly what the difference between the two is, something to do with the face I think, but I'd need to look it up.

I'd say either a kusia or kocet-kocetan hilt would be the hilt of choice for this sarung.

However, since this sarung is a rather recent creation I am relatively certain that it was not intended for the original purpose of this style, so an ordinary bobondolan style that was inlet to accept the selut would also be just fine.

According to the Neka book the kocet-kocetan and kusia hilts depict two different types of bugs but the most commonly accepted difference is that the name kocet-kocetan is more common in Bali, and kusia is more used in Lombok. I attach the pic of a typical hilt in this style.
Howevever I agree with Alan that since the sarung is a recent piece, any type of hilt would match, the tourist balinese krisses are usually fitted with a Nawasari style hilt, so any togogan hilt would be a good match also.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 22nd September 2020, 11:10 AM

Which Neka book is that Jean?

At your prompt --- ie, your mention of "the Neka book" (saved me searching) --- I opened up "Keris Bali Bersejarah", page 126, and I cannot find any mention of varying terminology in Bali & Lombok. That is not to say there is not, of course. There could be varying terminology if we walk from one side of the road to the other.

The KBB explanation of difference between Kusia & Kocet-kocetan is that Kusia does not have tusks & its face looks like the head of a butterfly, whilst the Kocet-kocetan has a face that looks like an insect with tusks or a horse with tusks.

Neka produced a few books, so maybe his explanations change depending on what he had for breakfast.

Actually, these forms do not represent bugs, or completely developed insects, they represent pupa or chrysalis, the stage before a bug becomes a bug, as such they represent change, what that change is can be interpreted in a number of ways.

21st September 2020, 05:24 PM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Charles, Attached is a Madurese kris estimated from the early 20th century with a somewhat similar type of thick hilt. Regards Attached Images

21st September 2020, 05:57 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hi Charles, Pics of a Madurese hilt more similar to yours, its height is 10 cm. The balinese selut is definitely misplaced IMO. From my experience these pieces are relatively recent (mid 20th century). Regards Attached Images Last edited by Jean; 21st September 2020 at 07:58 PM.

21st September 2020, 05:38 PM	#2
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Thanks Jean. Yes a similar( and lovely) hilt, but the size is much smaller than on that Balinese keris. It's easy to tell by the way it sits on the mendek.

21st September 2020, 10:17 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Charles, I suggest that you remove the hilt from the keris. I believe that you will find that this hilt is sitting on top of the selut, not fitted to the selut. Any selut is effectively a ferrule, it is supposed to fit around the base of the hilt, and was originally used to prevent the hilt splitting. On the keris under discussion I believe you will find that the hilt simply sits on top of the selut. The hilt itself is an East Javanese style, it can also be found in Madura, and Madura itself is a part of East Jawa, and it can be found along the North Coast of Jawa, but only a small distance to the west of Surabaya, whereas it can be found anywhere east of Surabaya. There can be no question at all that this is an East Javanese hilt. We can forget about the size of the hilt being any sort of indicator, size is totally irrelevant in this context. There is at least one hypothetical, but I will not address that until after the hilt has been removed from the keris.

22nd September 2020, 12:36 AM	#5
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	The hilt is, indeed, sitting centered on the selut. So, you guys’ observations of it not being properly set seem to be correct. If I wanted to get a new hilt for the good blade, what kind of hilt should I get that would most correctly go with the scabbard???

22nd September 2020, 02:43 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Charles, this is a jamprahan sarung, in olden times, say, pre-puputan, this style of sarung was normally worn by very religious people, not necessarily priests or preachers, but usually lay people who took their religious duties very seriously. It was usually paired with a kusia hilt. The kusia hilt style is rather rare, and these days the kusia and the kocet-kocetan style are more or less considered to be the same, which they are not quite, but the difference is very slight, off the top of my head I forget exactly what the difference between the two is, something to do with the face I think, but I'd need to look it up. I'd say either a kusia or kocet-kocetan hilt would be the hilt of choice for this sarung. However, since this sarung is a rather recent creation I am relatively certain that it was not intended for the original purpose of this style, so an ordinary bobondolan style that was inlet to accept the selut would also be just fine.

22nd September 2020, 11:10 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Which Neka book is that Jean? At your prompt --- ie, your mention of "the Neka book" (saved me searching) --- I opened up "Keris Bali Bersejarah", page 126, and I cannot find any mention of varying terminology in Bali & Lombok. That is not to say there is not, of course. There could be varying terminology if we walk from one side of the road to the other. The KBB explanation of difference between Kusia & Kocet-kocetan is that Kusia does not have tusks & its face looks like the head of a butterfly, whilst the Kocet-kocetan has a face that looks like an insect with tusks or a horse with tusks. Neka produced a few books, so maybe his explanations change depending on what he had for breakfast. Actually, these forms do not represent bugs, or completely developed insects, they represent pupa or chrysalis, the stage before a bug becomes a bug, as such they represent change, what that change is can be interpreted in a number of ways.