Trisula of unknown origin

kai · 27th August 2020, 12:48 PM

Hello Gustav,

It certainly looks like the iron may have lost quite a bit of substance - not unreasonable to assume that the tip got lost.

BTW, this is a besi lima rather than a trisula. This might also had affected the construction/style of the central spike.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 27th August 2020, 01:29 PM

You could well be right about the other symbols Gustav, but I cannot see the detail in these photos well enough to be able to comment.

I've got that "Kraton Jogja" book somewhere, but I can't find it, so I cannot comment on that either.

The Gunungan is a frequently met with symbol, every keris can be read as a Gunungan, even though it is seldom obvious --- quite obvious in early styles, it becomes less so later keris.

There's actually quite a bit that we extract from this, a lot more than I care to write about here. I'm very pleased that you made this photo available.

Thank you.

A. G. Maisey · 31st August 2020, 09:20 AM

Kai, when I read your post #34 I was a bit confused as to which item you considered to be a "wesi lima". I could not find my Jogja Kraton book to check the original photo in the book, but I have found it now, and I'm still confused.

Could you please tell us exactly which item you consider to be a "wesi lima", and why?

Thank you.

kai · 31st August 2020, 06:06 PM

Hello Alan,

The central spike seems to have a weird, asymmetrical shape.

I believe I see another lateral spike curving out from the base - not easy to see since its back (cp. my red arrows) points towards the camera; the fourth spike would be hidden behind the central spike in my opinion.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 31st August 2020, 09:49 PM

Thanks Kai.

Yes, I see what you mean, you might be right.

I have the original photo in the book in front of me, and looking at that, the possibility does not seem to be as clear as it is in your photo. But still, there does seem to be the possibility we're looking at a central blade with four surrounding blades.

You know, that "wesi lima" name has always seemed a bit odd to me, I doubt that this was a formal name for it way-back-when. Sounds more like a pasar name, a dealers name.

Still, I guess we'll never know what else it might have been known as, they're not common.

Paul Duffy · 3rd September 2020, 12:56 PM

My thanks to all for a fascinating story

Sajen · 4th September 2020, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

The central spike seems to have a weird, asymmetrical shape.

I believe I see another lateral spike curving out from the base - not easy to see since its back (cp. my red arrows) points towards the camera; the fourth spike would be hidden behind the central spike in my opinion.

Very good eye Kai!

Agree with you, by the provided picture it looks indeed like this. Agree with Alan about the name, besi/wesi lima is weird.

Regards,
Detlef

27th August 2020, 01:29 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	You could well be right about the other symbols Gustav, but I cannot see the detail in these photos well enough to be able to comment. I've got that "Kraton Jogja" book somewhere, but I can't find it, so I cannot comment on that either. The Gunungan is a frequently met with symbol, every keris can be read as a Gunungan, even though it is seldom obvious --- quite obvious in early styles, it becomes less so later keris. There's actually quite a bit that we extract from this, a lot more than I care to write about here. I'm very pleased that you made this photo available. Thank you. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 27th August 2020 at 01:48 PM.

31st August 2020, 06:06 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Alan, The central spike seems to have a weird, asymmetrical shape. I believe I see another lateral spike curving out from the base - not easy to see since its back (cp. my red arrows) points towards the camera; the fourth spike would be hidden behind the central spike in my opinion. Regards, Kai Attached Images

3rd September 2020, 12:56 PM	#6
Paul Duffy Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 31	trisula My thanks to all for a fascinating story

27th August 2020, 12:48 PM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Gustav, It certainly looks like the iron may have lost quite a bit of substance - not unreasonable to assume that the tip got lost. BTW, this is a besi lima rather than a trisula. This might also had affected the construction/style of the central spike. Regards, Kai

31st August 2020, 09:20 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Kai, when I read your post #34 I was a bit confused as to which item you considered to be a "wesi lima". I could not find my Jogja Kraton book to check the original photo in the book, but I have found it now, and I'm still confused. Could you please tell us exactly which item you consider to be a "wesi lima", and why? Thank you.

31st August 2020, 09:49 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Thanks Kai. Yes, I see what you mean, you might be right. I have the original photo in the book in front of me, and looking at that, the possibility does not seem to be as clear as it is in your photo. But still, there does seem to be the possibility we're looking at a central blade with four surrounding blades. You know, that "wesi lima" name has always seemed a bit odd to me, I doubt that this was a formal name for it way-back-when. Sounds more like a pasar name, a dealers name. Still, I guess we'll never know what else it might have been known as, they're not common.