South Sumatra?

Interested Party · 21st August 2020, 10:12 PM

Pictures of the hulu

Jean · 22nd August 2020, 09:34 AM

The blade does not look Javanese so the concepts of tangguh and dhapur do not apply.
IMO this kris originates from Sumatra but with mixed elements, the blade is old and probably from South Sumatra (not in sepokal style), and it does not match with the Bugis scabbard, and the hilt is in Jawa deman (shivering Javanese) style probably from Central Sumatra.
Regards

Interested Party · 23rd August 2020, 04:09 PM

Thank you Jean. Much appreciated. It seems I can grasp the symbolism and iconography a bit but how to describe a keris continues to elude me. I need a better library.

Jean · 24th August 2020, 02:33 PM

By the way Marco Noris in his excellent book "Gods, demons, and ancestors - Art of Indonesian kris hilts" (page 16 & 17) attributes this style of JD hilt with spiralling eyes to South-West Sumatra and he may well be right. These hilts are found in several regions of Sumatra with minor variations only.

Interested Party · 10th September 2020, 10:10 PM

I do need to pick up books authored by our members. So much to read out there.

Jean, you mentioned a Bugis type scabbard. In modern terminology how does that differ from what Gardner called a Northern type that he said comes from Perak?

Jean · 11th September 2020, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Jean, you mentioned a Bugis type scabbard. In modern terminology how does that differ from what Gardner called a Northern type that he said comes from Perak?

Gardner was based in Malaysia and he describes a Malay style of scabbard from Perak (Malaysia), but which is rather similar to the Bugis type of scabbard originating from Sulawesi, Sumbawa, and East Sumatra/ Riau islands.
Regards

Interested Party · 11th September 2020, 06:03 PM

Thank you Jean. How does one tell the difference? Is it the presence of a lata in the op example?

Is the study of the keris is a game of cultural relativism and that if one is not native to a keris culture, to a certain extent, picking one culture as an anchor helps to interpret the deluge of information in the beginning? OR should one always view an object in relation to it's original culture. OPTION 3 Dualism. Compartmentalizing these opposing views in parallel interpretations of a work?

This subject somehow reminds me of being in a conversations with a Spanish, a Portuguese, and an Italian speaker at once.

As Mr. Maisey said a few posts back, "kindergarten fees."

21st August 2020, 10:12 PM	#1
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 498	Hilt pictures Pictures of the hulu Attached Images

10th September 2020, 10:10 PM	#5
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 498	I do need to pick up books authored by our members. So much to read out there. Jean, you mentioned a Bugis type scabbard. In modern terminology how does that differ from what Gardner called a Northern type that he said comes from Perak? Attached Images

22nd August 2020, 09:34 AM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	The blade does not look Javanese so the concepts of tangguh and dhapur do not apply. IMO this kris originates from Sumatra but with mixed elements, the blade is old and probably from South Sumatra (not in sepokal style), and it does not match with the Bugis scabbard, and the hilt is in Jawa deman (shivering Javanese) style probably from Central Sumatra. Regards

23rd August 2020, 04:09 PM	#3
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 498	Thank you Jean. Much appreciated. It seems I can grasp the symbolism and iconography a bit but how to describe a keris continues to elude me. I need a better library.

24th August 2020, 02:33 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	By the way Marco Noris in his excellent book "Gods, demons, and ancestors - Art of Indonesian kris hilts" (page 16 & 17) attributes this style of JD hilt with spiralling eyes to South-West Sumatra and he may well be right. These hilts are found in several regions of Sumatra with minor variations only.

11th September 2020, 06:03 PM	#7
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 498	Thank you Jean. How does one tell the difference? Is it the presence of a lata in the op example? Is the study of the keris is a game of cultural relativism and that if one is not native to a keris culture, to a certain extent, picking one culture as an anchor helps to interpret the deluge of information in the beginning? OR should one always view an object in relation to it's original culture. OPTION 3 Dualism. Compartmentalizing these opposing views in parallel interpretations of a work? This subject somehow reminds me of being in a conversations with a Spanish, a Portuguese, and an Italian speaker at once. As Mr. Maisey said a few posts back, "kindergarten fees."