Koummya (information/opinions)

[Rareis]

Originally Posted by Sajen

You may find this interesting: http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/index.html

And here a very interesting thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=koummya

And koummyas worked for collectors have a very long tradition, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=koummya

Thank You Detlef and all the others for a very good 1:1 course on koummya blades. I got many new things to remember for the future.
I'll test the scabbard if it is silver or not aswell, if it's a real thing i'll keep it in my collection.

And if there are somebody who reads this topic and has knowledge of the marking on the blade - please let me know, it would be interesting to know too.

Thank You and until the next topics

[mariusgmioc]

Definitely a real, quality, Koummiya! A good example!

Now, whether it is silver or nickel-silver/alpaca/German silver is debatable but easy to check.

However it is quite obvious the scabbard and the fittings of the hilt are of the same material and belong together.

Considering just the quality of workmanship, I believe it is silver.

In many cases Moroccan silverware of the period were marked with a ram head or ox head silver marks.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Definitely a real, quality, Koummiya! A good example!

Real yes, quality is mediocre and under a good example I understand something different! But a honest mid. 20th century example IMVHO!

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Now, whether it is silver or nickel-silver/alpaca/German silver is debatable but easy to check.

Yes, this will be easy, you can check it by self or can let test it.

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

However it is quite obvious the scabbard and the fittings of the hilt are of the same material and belong together.

For sure, no doubt!

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Considering just the quality of workmanship, I believe it is silver.

I am nearly sure that it's no silver, compare the quality with the from me shown example.

Regards,
Detlef

[Lee]

I can surely see the similarities in workmanship between Rareis' example and Sajen's with the orange cord above. I also accept the mid-20th century dating stated by several observers above. As with Sajen's antique example shown above, not all ethnographic examples will have mounts completely of silver. One in Lew's collection had clearly seen use within the culture, but was mounted in brass and nickel silver. (I have regretted not having bought it from his Estate for myself.)

Rareis, you may wish to try polishing your mounts with silver creme. If a rich silvery luster quickly develops with black staining on your cloth, that suggests silver. Less luster, more work or traces of green on the cloth would favor nickel silver.

Of course, with later examples made after widespread tourism to an area you can never be entirely sure of the intended 'destination' of a piece, but I do believe this one is good enough to keep in your collection - at least until you find a better one that strikes your fancy.

[mariusgmioc]

Hello Detlef,

Why I do believe even more so it is silver?!

OXIDATION!

Please notice that the depressions/crevices in the engraved metal are oxidized black, which is quite typical for silver. Nickel-silver does not oxidize like that (see your example).

PS: Silver is very easy to identify without any effort other than patience. If in a few months it will start developing darker oxidation, then almost certainly is silver. There are also liquid reactives for identifying silver and any jeweler will be able to identify it immediately.

PPS: From the photos, it appears the hanging loops are not the original but replacement ones (different metal and crude fitting).

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Hello Detlef,

Why I do believe even more so it is silver?!

OXIDATION!

Please notice that the depressions/crevices in the engraved metal are oxidized black, which is quite typical for silver. Nickel-silver does not oxidize like that (see your example).

Hello Marius,

And why I am so sure that it isn't silver??

Look to a picture from my example taken without flash!

I guess it's nonnatural oxidation, I've seen this by many other white metal scabbards/mounts.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

PS: Another sign of very recent manufacture is in my eyes the blade, compare the here shown examples.

Here two pictures, one picture taken with and one without flash, from two antique blades and the recent one with orange cord, I think I don't need to tell where the recent one is placed!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Lee

I can surely see the similarities in workmanship between Rareis' example and Sajen's with the orange cord above. I also accept the mid-20th century dating stated by several observers above. As with Sajen's antique example shown above, not all ethnographic examples will have mounts completely of silver. One in Lew's collection had clearly seen use within the culture, but was mounted in brass and nickel silver. (I have regretted not having bought it from his Estate for myself.)

Yes Lee, I agree with you in all parts and like you I think that the example from Lew is a very nice old/antique example. I've added two pictures from it.

Originally Posted by Lee

Rareis, you may wish to try polishing your mounts with silver creme. If a rich silvery luster quickly develops with black staining on your cloth, that suggests silver. Less luster, more work or traces of green on the cloth would favor nickel silver.

I also agree that you see by polishing if you have silver or an other white metal alloy but you need a little bit experience, some white metal alloys develop a similar black staining on the polish cloth. And it can become difficult when you have a low silver alloy. Complete sure you only can get by testing.

Originally Posted by Lee

Of course, with later examples made after widespread tourism to an area you can never be entirely sure of the intended 'destination' of a piece, but I do believe this one is good enough to keep in your collection - at least until you find a better one that strikes your fancy.

Agree again, keep it until a better one cross your way, and you will also have an example to compare!

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rareis

Thank You Detlef and all the others for a very good 1:1 course on koummya blades. I got many new things to remember for the future.
I'll test the scabbard if it is silver or not aswell, if it's a real thing i'll keep it in my collection.

You are welcome! Please can you show a picture from the scabbard mouth? And please let us know if it is silver or German silver!

Regards,
Detlef