Koummya (information/opinions)

[Rareis]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Sorry, I disagree. I for my part think that it's a well made and better koummya worked for collectors (instead for those who travel), mid 20th century would be my guess. The blade is a good one, workmanship of the fittings ok.

Regards,
Detlef

PS: Forget, I don't think that the scabbard is from silver, have you tested it? I guess it's german silver.

Thank You Detlef for your interesting opinion. I have not tested the scabbard with the right methods, but the scabbard is not magnetic. As I understand German Silver is magnetic metal...The scabbard (from one side) and the attachment rings are quite worn aswell - so if it is a well crafted piece for the collectors, it has been thought of.
The French gentleman who gave it to me as a gift is a genuine world traveller and a fierce collector. From every part of the world he brings back several blades from antique shops and local collectors. He has specialized on Ottoman era mainly, but has dozens of blades from all over the world.
He had 2 koummya from the travels and that is one of them. The other one looked a like, but had several markings on the scabbard (but non on the blade) This one has marking on the blade, but not on the scabbard

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rareis

Thank You Detlef for your interesting opinion. I have not tested the scabbard with the right methods, but the scabbard is not magnetic. As I understand German Silver is magnetic metal...The scabbard (from one side) and the attachment rings are quite worn aswell - so if it is a well crafted piece for the collectors, it has been thought of.

Hello Rareis,

German silver isn't magnetic, see here for German silver: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_silver
Nickel is magnetic but the percentage from around 20% is too low to let become the alloy magnetic.
I am not firm enough with Moroccan culture and until which time koummyas were worn but guess that it would be around the middle of 20th century.
I have a similar worked example like yours and it's for sure not from silver and the colour in your pictures let me doubt that yours could be from silver.
A silver test is cheap, you can order the liquid online. Test it to get sure.
I am far away to be an expert for koummyas but have handled several pieces in my collector time. There are members who are very more knowledgeable, hope they will join in.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

You may find this interesting: http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/index.html

And here a very interesting thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=koummya

And koummyas worked for collectors have a very long tradition, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=koummya

[Sajen]

Here my similar example, it's a little bit later IMHO. Scabbard and fittings clearly not from silver. Sorry for the picture quality, they are fast and just before taken.

[Sajen]

And here an antique example in brass and silver I've sold some time ago for comparison.

[Rareis]

Originally Posted by Sajen

You may find this interesting: http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/index.html

And here a very interesting thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=koummya

And koummyas worked for collectors have a very long tradition, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=koummya

Thank You Detlef and all the others for a very good 1:1 course on koummya blades. I got many new things to remember for the future.
I'll test the scabbard if it is silver or not aswell, if it's a real thing i'll keep it in my collection.

And if there are somebody who reads this topic and has knowledge of the marking on the blade - please let me know, it would be interesting to know too.

Thank You and until the next topics

[mariusgmioc]

Definitely a real, quality, Koummiya! A good example!

Now, whether it is silver or nickel-silver/alpaca/German silver is debatable but easy to check.

However it is quite obvious the scabbard and the fittings of the hilt are of the same material and belong together.

Considering just the quality of workmanship, I believe it is silver.

In many cases Moroccan silverware of the period were marked with a ram head or ox head silver marks.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Definitely a real, quality, Koummiya! A good example!

Real yes, quality is mediocre and under a good example I understand something different! But a honest mid. 20th century example IMVHO!

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Now, whether it is silver or nickel-silver/alpaca/German silver is debatable but easy to check.

Yes, this will be easy, you can check it by self or can let test it.

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

However it is quite obvious the scabbard and the fittings of the hilt are of the same material and belong together.

For sure, no doubt!

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Considering just the quality of workmanship, I believe it is silver.

I am nearly sure that it's no silver, compare the quality with the from me shown example.

Regards,
Detlef

[Lee]

I can surely see the similarities in workmanship between Rareis' example and Sajen's with the orange cord above. I also accept the mid-20th century dating stated by several observers above. As with Sajen's antique example shown above, not all ethnographic examples will have mounts completely of silver. One in Lew's collection had clearly seen use within the culture, but was mounted in brass and nickel silver. (I have regretted not having bought it from his Estate for myself.)

Rareis, you may wish to try polishing your mounts with silver creme. If a rich silvery luster quickly develops with black staining on your cloth, that suggests silver. Less luster, more work or traces of green on the cloth would favor nickel silver.

Of course, with later examples made after widespread tourism to an area you can never be entirely sure of the intended 'destination' of a piece, but I do believe this one is good enough to keep in your collection - at least until you find a better one that strikes your fancy.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rareis

Thank You Detlef and all the others for a very good 1:1 course on koummya blades. I got many new things to remember for the future.
I'll test the scabbard if it is silver or not aswell, if it's a real thing i'll keep it in my collection.

You are welcome! Please can you show a picture from the scabbard mouth? And please let us know if it is silver or German silver!

Regards,
Detlef