Great Qama

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

I don't think anyone is questioning Persian influence. Just in the current belief system Tiflis seems a reasonable attribution.

I do. And the map looks quite deceiving.

Persians tried to absorb Eastern Georgia for centuries, and invaded it repeatedly, sometimes being victorious, sometimes beaten. But they never made it a part of Persian Empire: Georgians were fiercely independent and their Christian faith resisted Moslem rule.

Persian military and political influence of Caucasus and Transcaucasia ended in 1801 by the entrance of Russia as a player, when it officially made Georgia as part of the Russian Empire. Persians tried to offer a feeble fight, but were beaten mercilessly and in 1813 they officially ceded any claims on Eastern Georgia and the entire Daghestan ( Golestan treaty). Thus, by the time this kindjal was created there was not a trace of Persian military or political influence or presence in that area ( see map).

Artistic, -yes, because art has no borders. But I have gone over Khorasani's book showing multiple examples of kindjals and sabers from major Iranian museums and there is nothing even remotely similar. On the other hand, there are multiple examples of similar decorative motives on Georgian weapons from that era. Moreover, the "almost wild damascus" of the flat parts of the blade and " Tiflis Zigzag" within the fullers is typically Georgian and has no analogies in Iran.

IMHO: pure Georgian, most likely Tiflis, second quarter of 19-th century.
And gorgeous.

[Interested Party]

[Gonzoadler]

Thank's to all for the previous comments.
@Interested Party
Thank you for the pictures from Rivkin's book which show the comparable daggers I searched for. The author also thinks that these daggers were made in Tiflis. Because a number of experts and collectors have this opinion, I accept this thesis. Rivkin also thinks that such blades were made between 1810 and 1830, I think so, too. Later Kindjals and Qamas from the second half of the 19th. century have no blades of this high quality.
@ariel
The persian influence is unquestionable and what do you think is the other influence your previous writer means than an artistic one?

I have one more question: Is anybody here in the forum who knows which flowers are pictured on the blade and the scabbard-mounting?
A very similar flower you can also see on the dagger in the first picture of post 29.

[Wootzo]

A very fine example of the early georgian Kindjal. 1830-1840 would be the probable period. In these times, there were a few artisans creating high-quality arms in the area. These are the types of daggers that made Tiflis famous at the time.

Same period as the great masters working in the area. Truly the "Golden Age" of Tiflis arms craftmanship. These style of decoration are very typical.

You should consider sending your dagger to Gotscha Lagidze for restoration in the Netherland.

[alex8765]

I vote for Georgian too.

[ariel]

I shall pass on your question re. images of flowers:
My wife had been exasperated with my ignorance in botany. She is sure that for me there are only 2 kinds of flowers: those with thorns are roses, those without - tulips:-(((((
I am absolutely the worst person to ask that question. Sorry....



As to it’s origin, I again see no Persian influence: IMHO it is purely Georgian.
Also, I do not see any reason for restoration; it is in a perfect shape.

[Gonzoadler]

I compared the flower with some pictures from the internet and now I think it is a thistle, maybe a gold thistle. There are some differences between the picture and a real gold thistle, but thats artistic freedom
The deer is probably a roebuck.