Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 3rd May 2020, 10:57 AM   #1
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
Default

Thanks Jean Baptiste

I agree centipedes have magical powers, they give strenght and protection.

Here some examples of shield and keris (from this forum) with centipedes on it.

IMO the wavy blade of the keris are representation of centipedes.


And the steel pattern on the blades represent the legs and the head of the centipede is a the forte of the blade.

I need keris specialists expertise...

Keris are stingy weapons, it would be the meaning.

I will be grateful if the admin can move back this thread to weapons...
Attached Images
    
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2020, 12:26 PM   #2
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,255
Post

Thanks for the examples, Kubur!

I'm afraid that the current selection is not really convincing to me: The keris are very recent pieces (or recently modified from old blades); these are clearly not traditional and, thus, only representative of the current era approach of a limited sector of society on Java to regard keris as art for art's sake only (i.e. not restricted by any traditional constraints).

These brass "Aceh" bucklers were produced in huge numbers for the late-colonial collector's market (for colonial Dutch and other visitors); the addition of a snake and a centipede is certainly unusual and not representative of any older pieces I remember - I'm pretty sure that this piece isn't from a workshop run by Acehnese craftsmen.

There is no doubt that centipedes have been widely regarded as special (strong and dangerous) animals like elephants, crocodiles, snakes, tigers, etc. As poisonous animals, they will also have found a place in rituals as well as parlor tricks.

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2020, 02:25 PM   #3
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,224
Default

I've seen videos of Filipino smiths basting red-hot blades just before quenching with crushed spiders and centipedes t 'poison' the blade for extra lethality. Don't think any actual poison is left after tho. Maybe just a bit of the spirit of the angry animal enters the blade tho.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2020, 03:49 PM   #4
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
Default

I agree for the two keris.

And do you explain the pamor Kelabang Sayuta or Kelabang Sewu?
The centipede pamor

Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2020, 05:00 PM   #5
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,280
Default

I'll see if this can be sent back over to the Ethnographic side.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2020, 11:52 PM   #6
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,280
Default

Thank you Fernando!
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2020, 02:54 AM   #7
josh stout
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 407
Default

The "five deadly venoms" isn't just a classic kung-fu film. The centipede, snake, lizard, scorpion and toad are the classic deadly animals of Chinese folklore. Indonesian mythology holds similar ideas about venomous animals, including a widespread belief in poisonous lizards (not so ridiculous considering the Komodo dragon, a toxic Indonesian lizard with lots of untested relatives.).

The keris is clearly a snake (or more properly, a regal naga), and its use would be like a striking snake, rather than a slicing or chopping technique. It is very interesting though, to see someone has switched in another of the deadly animals, even if it is a recent depiction.

I am posting a related obat (medicine) bottle from Sumatra, perhaps Aceh. It has five deadly animals that are a little different than the Chinese versions. This obat bottle has a Snake, lizard, spider (replacing toad), and a combination centipede/scorpion. Both aspects are clear, from the pincers of the scorpion, to the sinuous body of the centipede with the characteristic forked tip. The snake is represented by carved bands of scales, with the bands in the form of straps. The venoms can be represented in part, and combined, to multiply the effect. The combined power of the venoms gives the medicine its power, or from another point of view, represents the power of the medicine within. At the top of the bottle is a stopper in the form of a crouched figure similar to a keris hilt. This is an obvious reference to a sick figure being cured by the medicine in the bottle, but it is also a figure containing the magic of the deadly venoms. In my opinion, the handle of the keris is similarly controlling a venomous snake, which, can then be seen as ritualistically equivalent to a centipede.

I wouldn't be surprised to someday see a lizard keris.
Attached Images
  
josh stout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2020, 07:37 AM   #8
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
Thank you Fernando!
I agree with Battara and I join him to thanks Fernando.
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.