Pamorless

[JustYS]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

We do not see pudak setegal in old keris, but we need to be aware that from the Javanese perspective "old keris" means keris prior to the second era of Mataram, ie, more or less prior to 1600.Mataram and younger are "new keris".

Thank you Alan for refreshing my memory on what is Old and New from the Javanese perspective.

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Pudak setegal is actually the name of a type of dancer's ear ornament, not an ear ring or stud, but an ornament. Pudhak is the pandanus flower, but the word "setegal" or "sategal" makes no sense to me in this context, so we need to regard the two words together as a name. The dancer's ear ornament is the source of the name for the blade ornamentation.

Pudhak Sategal literally means a field full of Pandanus flower, I agree it does not make any sense in Keris context.

Do you have any image depicting this type of dancer's ear ornament that become the source of Pudhak Sategal in Keris?

Also according to Dhapur 1920 book there are 2 types of pudhak sategal:

1. Landep (sharp/open)
2. Bungkem (dull/closed)

Do you know the symbolic meaning of these 2 types of pudhak sategal?

Thank you

[A. G. Maisey]

If we take the two words "pudhak" & "sategal" and look them up in a dictionary we find that "pudhak" = pandanus flower, and "sategal" ="sa" singular indicator prefix + "tegal" which can be understood in several ways but coupled with a flower it should be understood as dry field, not a field for rice, but for dry crops, or even just grass, it can also be understood as a large field.

However, if we put those two words together they must not be understood literally as separate words, they must be understood as the name of a part of the wardrobe used by dancers performing the classical repertoire.

I have no deep knowledge of Javanese dance, most especially not of the names or appearance of all the wardrobe items used by dancers. I know the origin of the name because it is something that was common knowledge amongst Solo ahli keris during the 1980's.

What I wrote about the freedom of the maker in use of this pudhak sategal characteristic is again something that was taken as a given by the people from whom I learnt, I think you will find EK says something similar --- I cannot check this myself at the moment because I've lent my copy of EK to a friend.

The symbolism of the pandanus flower is common knowledge, but I have no knowledge at all of what variations in the style of rendering the pandanus flower might be.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Jean, you are absolutely correct, some embossed work can be of high quality, similarly, some engraved work can be of rather poor quality, however in terms of comparison between embossed work and engraved work, the craftsman's skill, the time involved, the cost and the degree of prestige attached to ownership is invariably higher with engraved work than with embossed work. I'm not speaking just of keris or pendok here, I'm speaking of all those things that can be embossed or engraved.

Actually, the most prestigious pendok style is the templek pendok, where a panel of sculpted metal overlays the front of the pendok, producing a three dimensional effect.

[JustYS]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

If we take the two words "pudhak" & "sategal" and look them up in a dictionary we find that "pudhak" = pandanus flower, and "sategal" ="sa" singular indicator prefix + "tegal" which can be understood in several ways but coupled with a flower it should be understood as dry field, not a field for rice, but for dry crops, or even just grass, it can also be understood as a large field.

However, if we put those two words together they must not be understood literally as separate words, they must be understood as the name of a part of the wardrobe used by dancers performing the classical repertoire.

I have no deep knowledge of Javanese dance, most especially not of the names or appearance of all the wardrobe items used by dancers. I know the origin of the name because it is something that was common knowledge amongst Solo ahli keris during the 1980's.

What I wrote about the freedom of the maker in use of this pudhak sategal characteristic is again something that was taken as a given by the people from whom I learnt, I think you will find EK says something similar --- I cannot check this myself at the moment because I've lent my copy of EK to a friend.

The symbolism of the pandanus flower is common knowledge, but I have no knowledge at all of what variations in the style of rendering the pandanus flower might be.

Many thanks for your detailed explanations Alan

Cheers,