Interesting Keris to share

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes, there is a quite heavy touch of Madura there, and it is a possibility that the blade was made in Madura, but that blade is stylistically West Java, Segaluh, and yes, it is gonjo iras.

But it is not Segaluh sepuh, it is probably no earlier than second half 19th century, and at that time the pamor motif could have been produced anywhere.

Hello Alan,
I've thought it's a Segaluh blade, why is it not in your opinion?

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

It is Segaluh Detlef, but stylistically.

It might have been made in West Jawa, but if it was, then it was made a lot later than the blades that we normally see that we can classify as Segaluh.
I think you are asking me why I think it is not an older blade?

Well, the iron is wrong, it is too padat, not coarse enough, the pamor is wrong, the luk although shallow are quite distinct. Stylistically it is classifiable as Segaluh, it cannot be classified as anything else, but based upon what I believe I can see in the photo I would be very unwilling to give it the age that genuine old Segaluh needs, simply because the materials are wrong.

[RSWORD]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I am enjoying the discussion and information.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

It is Segaluh Detlef, but stylistically.

It might have been made in West Jawa, but if it was, then it was made a lot later than the blades that we normally see that we can classify as Segaluh.
I think you are asking me why I think it is not an older blade?

Well, the iron is wrong, it is too padat, not coarse enough, the pamor is wrong, the luk although shallow are quite distinct. Stylistically it is classifiable as Segaluh, it cannot be classified as anything else, but based upon what I believe I can see in the photo I would be very unwilling to give it the age that genuine old Segaluh needs, simply because the materials are wrong.

Thank you Alan and by close inspection and comparision with Segaluh blades I understand what you mean! Thank's for the (for me) very good learning lesson!


Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks Detlef.

I very often am not able to make comments such as I have made in respect of this keris, simply because the photos that are posted are just not good enough.

Photos at any time are a very poor substitute for having the actual thing in your hand, in good direct sunlight, and with access to strong magnification, these photos seem to give a very idea of what we need to see.

However, there is a qualification:- what would my comments be if I knew with certainty that this keris had been reworked and re-polished?

There is absolutely no way I can tell that from any photos, no matter how good, and I might not even be able to know even if I had it in my hand under ideal conditions.

[jagabuwana]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

It is Segaluh Detlef, but stylistically.

It might have been made in West Jawa, but if it was, then it was made a lot later than the blades that we normally see that we can classify as Segaluh.

Between what years do you normally find that Segaluh-classified blades were made?

[A. G. Maisey]

I don't want to go there Jaga.

If you're a hardcore Kejawen practicing Solo based ahli keris you'd prpbably say 600AD to 800AD --- more or less, the old Kingdom of Galuh

If you're a bit less hardcore you're probably going to say around 1200AD.

If you're a bit of a rationalist you'll maybe opt for 16th century, west Jawa, same area that the old kingdom of Galuh was located.

If you are a hardcore rationalist with a little bit of knowledge of Javanese history you will just say old, pre-18th century.

But the thing this:- copies of Segaluh and almost all other classifications have been made right through to right now.

You decide who you would like to be and you can pick your own time frame.

[jagabuwana]

Understood - thanks Alan.