Breastplate

fernando · 28th March 2020, 04:37 PM

A rather interesting peascod example, Thomas. No wonder it is that heavy, with the metal reinforcement.
May i ask an ignorant question about the collar piece, once Dirk didn't mention anything about it. Why does it have those crude iron rivets ? Could it have been removed for some reason and later riveted back in place ? Can't we see a little disalignment of the decoration in the center ?

Lansquenet59 · 28th March 2020, 05:36 PM

My theory is that the collar may have been adapted later, perhaps for better protection, as well as the inner plate too.
I think, originally a simple breastplate transformed for the seat ....

fernando · 28th March 2020, 05:46 PM

I confess my ignorance. What do you mean by 'seat'; not siege, of course

.

David R · 28th March 2020, 06:35 PM

There are breastplates in the Leeds Royal Armouries Museum that are doubled, with a layer between that is made up almost random scrap. Plates from faulds and tassets held between two breastplates, or a breastplate and a metal lining. They are dated to the later 17th century.

Lansquenet59 · 28th March 2020, 06:47 PM

"Seat" (siège) is the French term, what is the English term? When is there an attack on a fortification?

fernando · 28th March 2020, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lansquenet59

"Seat" (siège) is the French term, what is the English term? When is there an attack on a fortification?

I figured that was what you meant; just wasn't sure. Yes, siege (surround) in English, cerco in Portuguese.

Lansquenet59 · 28th March 2020, 07:43 PM

Okay, thank you, I'll know for the next time.

ulfberth · 28th March 2020, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

A rather interesting peascod example, Thomas. No wonder it is that heavy, with the metal reinforcement.
May i ask an ignorant question about the collar piece, once Dirk didn't mention anything about it. Why does it have those crude iron rivets ? Could it have been removed for some reason and later riveted back in place ? Can't we see a little disalignment of the decoration in the center ?

The place were the iron rivets are now is were the brass rivets like the one on the sides used to be, they closed the old holes with iron placing the reinforcement. Its clear this breastplate was transformed as Lansquenet put it for a siege or a campaign, closing it more on the neck in the process providing more protection.

fernando · 28th March 2020, 08:59 PM

Duly noted, Dirk

.

ulfberth · 28th March 2020, 10:16 PM

this armor is obviously from a high ranked officer and more decorated , but if you look closely it has also brass decoration on the sides , decorated with similar lines across the torso and even a resembling shape. It is in Musee de L'armee in Paris and is described as " armor for the siege circa 1670" if you look closely you can see that this helmet has also reinforcement plates on top. I wonder if the two bolts on the breastplate are used to attach extra reinforcement plates to, this method was used at the time on both helmets and breastplates. This closed helmet for the field circa 1620 with bolt on ( removable) reinforcement plates is in the Metmuseum weight 6,293 kilo.

Lansquenet59 · 29th March 2020, 01:48 PM

Thank you for sharing. I did not know this plate reinforcement system. It's very interesting.

fernando · 29th March 2020, 03:15 PM

It must have been hell to keep head (and body) inside these apparatuses; in a warm/hot climate, they become as hot as stoves. In reading chronicles of the (Portuguese) discoveries period in India, those who wore armour couldn't stand the heat and often had to take them off ... and apparently not the reinforced version.

ulfberth · 29th March 2020, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

It must have been hell to keep head (and body) inside these apparatuses; in a warm/hot climate, they become as hot as stoves. In reading chronicles of the (Portuguese) discoveries period in India, those who wore armour couldn't stand the heat and often had to take them off ... and apparently not the reinforced version.

take in account the padded liner in helmets and gambason worn under the armor

Victrix · 29th March 2020, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

It must have been hell to keep head (and body) inside these apparatuses; in a warm/hot climate, they become as hot as stoves. In reading chronicles of the (Portuguese) discoveries period in India, those who wore armour couldn't stand the heat and often had to take them off ... and apparently not the reinforced version.

Hence the popularity of wearing mail armour in the Middle East and other hot places. Air could circulate and heat evaporate.

28th March 2020, 10:16 PM	#10
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 435	this armor is obviously from a high ranked officer and more decorated , but if you look closely it has also brass decoration on the sides , decorated with similar lines across the torso and even a resembling shape. It is in Musee de L'armee in Paris and is described as " armor for the siege circa 1670" if you look closely you can see that this helmet has also reinforcement plates on top. I wonder if the two bolts on the breastplate are used to attach extra reinforcement plates to, this method was used at the time on both helmets and breastplates. This closed helmet for the field circa 1620 with bolt on ( removable) reinforcement plates is in the Metmuseum weight 6,293 kilo. Attached Images

28th March 2020, 04:37 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A rather interesting peascod example, Thomas. No wonder it is that heavy, with the metal reinforcement. May i ask an ignorant question about the collar piece, once Dirk didn't mention anything about it. Why does it have those crude iron rivets ? Could it have been removed for some reason and later riveted back in place ? Can't we see a little disalignment of the decoration in the center ?

28th March 2020, 05:36 PM	#2
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	My theory is that the collar may have been adapted later, perhaps for better protection, as well as the inner plate too. I think, originally a simple breastplate transformed for the seat ....

28th March 2020, 05:46 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I confess my ignorance. What do you mean by 'seat'; not siege, of course .

28th March 2020, 06:35 PM	#4
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,131	There are breastplates in the Leeds Royal Armouries Museum that are doubled, with a layer between that is made up almost random scrap. Plates from faulds and tassets held between two breastplates, or a breastplate and a metal lining. They are dated to the later 17th century.

28th March 2020, 06:47 PM	#5
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	"Seat" (siège) is the French term, what is the English term? When is there an attack on a fortification?

28th March 2020, 07:43 PM	#7
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	Okay, thank you, I'll know for the next time.

28th March 2020, 08:59 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Duly noted, Dirk .

29th March 2020, 01:48 PM	#11
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	Thank you for sharing. I did not know this plate reinforcement system. It's very interesting.

29th March 2020, 03:15 PM	#12
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	It must have been hell to keep head (and body) inside these apparatuses; in a warm/hot climate, they become as hot as stoves. In reading chronicles of the (Portuguese) discoveries period in India, those who wore armour couldn't stand the heat and often had to take them off ... and apparently not the reinforced version.