Ottoman Hancer for translation

mariusgmioc · 15th March 2020, 11:15 AM

Now regarding Osman Nuri Pasha, citing from Wikipedia:

He served in Crimea, where his bravery secured him a promotion as First Lieutenant. After the end of the war (February 1856), Osman was appointed to the General Staff and, a year later (1857), had risen to the rank of Captain with the title of Bey. In 1859 he was appointed as a military representative in the forming of the cadastral and census map of the Ottoman Empire, a job he fulfilled for the next two years.

In 1861, Osman was sent to Beirut Vilayet, where a rebellion had been started by Yusuf Ekrem in Syria.

I wonder if it was the same. But then the years won't match as in 1868, he was promoted to the rank of Major-General with the title of Pasha...

Or may it be Osman Hamdi Bey?

On the other hand, I assume Osman was quite a common name in the Ottoman army and there might heve been another one with the title of Bey.

motan · 15th March 2020, 03:21 PM

Hi,
Interesting to know the provenance. If indeed Damascus, Syria, it put all the conventional knowledge that this type of dagger is ALBANIAN in doubt.
I personally don't know why we would not believe that. It is true that in Damascus they produced many Ottoman weapons in all styles according to demands of clients, but these were mostly second rate imitations of original (Kindjals, Persian Shamshirs etc.) and of mediocre quality. This is certainly one not second rate. The scabbard, if original, is Syrian/Iraqi/Kurdish style because of the silver work, the tip and the row of turquoise beads. Similar to scabbards of high-end Kurdish daggers.
About the date: I really don't know what you think reasonable or logical, but it clearly is 195 and not anything else. Whether this makes sense or not is beside the point.

Kubur · 15th March 2020, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motan

It is true that in Damascus they produced many Ottoman weapons in all styles according to demands of clients, but these were mostly second rate imitations of original (Kindjals, Persian Shamshirs etc.) and of mediocre quality.

Hi Motan,

I disagree you have amazing daggers and swords from Syria, Egypt and North Africa. I think you refer to very late 19th c and 1900 Syrian productions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by motan

The scabbard, if original, is Syrian/Iraqi/Kurdish style because of the silver work, the tip and the row of turquoise beads. Similar to scabbards of high-end Kurdish daggers.

Again I disagree the scabbard is very Turkish and no suprise if you have some very similar scabbards in Ottoman Bagdad. The only link to Iraqi daggers is the row of turquoise I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by motan

About the date: I really don't know what you think reasonable or logical, but it clearly is 195 and not anything else. Whether this makes sense or not is beside the point.

For the date you have hundred of Ottoman dates where the 2 is inverted and looks like a 6. I think you have some on this forum...

kwiatek · 15th March 2020, 06:27 PM

I thought of something but then realised it could not be the case. Cannot delete the post completely

15th March 2020, 11:15 AM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Now regarding Osman Nuri Pasha, citing from Wikipedia: He served in Crimea, where his bravery secured him a promotion as First Lieutenant. After the end of the war (February 1856), Osman was appointed to the General Staff and, a year later (1857), had risen to the rank of Captain with the title of Bey. In 1859 he was appointed as a military representative in the forming of the cadastral and census map of the Ottoman Empire, a job he fulfilled for the next two years. In 1861, Osman was sent to Beirut Vilayet, where a rebellion had been started by Yusuf Ekrem in Syria. I wonder if it was the same. But then the years won't match as in 1868, he was promoted to the rank of Major-General with the title of Pasha... Or may it be Osman Hamdi Bey? On the other hand, I assume Osman was quite a common name in the Ottoman army and there might heve been another one with the title of Bey. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 15th March 2020 at 02:05 PM.

15th March 2020, 03:21 PM	#2
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi, Interesting to know the provenance. If indeed Damascus, Syria, it put all the conventional knowledge that this type of dagger is ALBANIAN in doubt. I personally don't know why we would not believe that. It is true that in Damascus they produced many Ottoman weapons in all styles according to demands of clients, but these were mostly second rate imitations of original (Kindjals, Persian Shamshirs etc.) and of mediocre quality. This is certainly one not second rate. The scabbard, if original, is Syrian/Iraqi/Kurdish style because of the silver work, the tip and the row of turquoise beads. Similar to scabbards of high-end Kurdish daggers. About the date: I really don't know what you think reasonable or logical, but it clearly is 195 and not anything else. Whether this makes sense or not is beside the point.

15th March 2020, 06:27 PM	#4
kwiatek Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 156	I thought of something but then realised it could not be the case. Cannot delete the post completely