Metal Balinese hilt with sheath

kai · 21st February 2020, 06:33 PM

Looks more like low quality Bali to me (from the single pic).

The Java version tends to be worse - or really much worse...

Regards,
Kai

apolaki · 21st February 2020, 07:09 PM

Oh I see. Do you have an example photo of Javanese version of these Balinese hilts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Looks more like low quality Bali to me (from the single pic).

The Java version tends to be worse - or really much worse...

Regards,
Kai

Marcokeris · 21st February 2020, 10:38 PM

no because these Javanese (...not Javanese but, IMO, wooden Madura hilts with Bali patterns) do not deserve to be bought or photographed

kai · 21st February 2020, 10:56 PM

I wasn't referring to those wooden free-style hilts, Marco.

I meant the "golden/jewelled" brass-clad hilts produced near Yogya.

However, I also don't have any pic handy - maybe we should start a hall of shame...

Regards,
Kai

apolaki · 22nd February 2020, 04:02 PM

Hi Marco and Kai, is this the wooden style hilts being referred to? Is it a Balinese or Javanese/Madura craft in the style of Balinese?

And Jean, I will get to the other questions about the ganja as soon as possible. I am cleaning the blade. It looks like someone took an electric grinder to it because there are striation marks throughout. It is currently bathing in a less than 5% vinegar & water solution. (Incidently, I really fear I messed up cleaning a moro kris using just straight 5% vinegar, so I am really cautious using vinegar now).

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I wasn't referring to those wooden free-style hilts, Marco.

I meant the "golden/jewelled" brass-clad hilts produced near Yogya.

However, I also don't have any pic handy - maybe we should start a hall of shame...

Regards,
Kai

Marcokeris · 22nd February 2020, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolaki

Hi Marco and Kai, is this the wooden style hilts being referred to? Is it a Balinese or Javanese craft in the style of Balinese?

And Jean, I will get to the other questions about the ganja as soon as possible. I am cleaning the blade. It looks like someone took an electric grinder to it because there are striation marks throughout. It is currently bathing in a less than 5% vinegar & water solution. (Incidently, I really fear I messed up cleaning a moro kris using just straight 5% vinegar, so I am really cautious using vinegar now).

IMO this is a wooden Maduran (Javenese or Balinese )hilt made for the big tourist shopping centers in Kuta .... like Matahari

Battara · 22nd February 2020, 05:16 PM

An observation:

Brass is much harder to work versus copper, silver, or gold. Great detail can be made through these other metals. But brass, even when very thin, can be worked in detail, but not the detail or finesse than what I have seen in the other metals. This includes when the hilt is filled with resin and not wood.

I also base this on personal experience working with all of these metals, including the very thin sheets for repousse.

Thus I am not surprised that the lower work I have seen has been in the cheapest metal of brass (though I have seen some low work in silver as well).

David · 22nd February 2020, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolaki

Hi Marco and Kai, is this the wooden style hilts being referred to? Is it a Balinese or Javanese/Madura craft in the style of Balinese?

And Jean, I will get to the other questions about the ganja as soon as possible. I am cleaning the blade. It looks like someone took an electric grinder to it because there are striation marks throughout. It is currently bathing in a less than 5% vinegar & water solution. (Incidently, I really fear I messed up cleaning a moro kris using just straight 5% vinegar, so I am really cautious using vinegar now).

I would need to see more photos and dimensions on this hilt would be helpful, but this polychrome wooden hilt that you have just shown us i would take as a Bali hilt. I have never seen anything like that coming from Jawa or Madura.

David · 22nd February 2020, 08:24 PM

BTW, here is my own Bali "Bayu" style hilt. It is also brass with the remnants of an gold wash still evident. I would call it a middle quality example, perhaps a little better than the one you present, but no where near the court level hilts that these emulate. I believe most, if not all the "stones" on this hilt are glass. Again, in Bali this is not a big deal. Yes, high end court pieces will most likely have some real gemstones on them, but they are also likely to have a few glass and paste "stones" right in there with the rest. In Bali it is the over all visual affect that is more important than the value of individual gemstones.

22nd February 2020, 08:24 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,219	BTW, here is my own Bali "Bayu" style hilt. It is also brass with the remnants of an gold wash still evident. I would call it a middle quality example, perhaps a little better than the one you present, but no where near the court level hilts that these emulate. I believe most, if not all the "stones" on this hilt are glass. Again, in Bali this is not a big deal. Yes, high end court pieces will most likely have some real gemstones on them, but they are also likely to have a few glass and paste "stones" right in there with the rest. In Bali it is the over all visual affect that is more important than the value of individual gemstones. Attached Images

21st February 2020, 06:33 PM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Looks more like low quality Bali to me (from the single pic). The Java version tends to be worse - or really much worse... Regards, Kai

21st February 2020, 10:38 PM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	no because these Javanese (...not Javanese but, IMO, wooden Madura hilts with Bali patterns) do not deserve to be bought or photographed

21st February 2020, 10:56 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	I wasn't referring to those wooden free-style hilts, Marco. I meant the "golden/jewelled" brass-clad hilts produced near Yogya. However, I also don't have any pic handy - maybe we should start a hall of shame... Regards, Kai

22nd February 2020, 05:16 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	An observation: Brass is much harder to work versus copper, silver, or gold. Great detail can be made through these other metals. But brass, even when very thin, can be worked in detail, but not the detail or finesse than what I have seen in the other metals. This includes when the hilt is filled with resin and not wood. I also base this on personal experience working with all of these metals, including the very thin sheets for repousse. Thus I am not surprised that the lower work I have seen has been in the cheapest metal of brass (though I have seen some low work in silver as well).